[ansel12]

I wouldn’t mind seeing an effective libertarian party taking elements from both parties. It could win, but it’s the end of the socially conservative issues. I could actually live with that if the feds would stop controlling every aspect of our lives.

As 50 years of history proves to us, libertarianism actually results in more and bigger government.

Broken people, broken lives, broken communities and open borders, do not breed rightwing conservative voters, it breeds more liberal voters.

Social conservatism breeds the conservative voter.

A community that supports or lives social liberalism, votes liberal, not conservative.

[Finny]

Ansell, show proof of that. Give some specific examples of how:

As 50 years of history proves to us, libertarianism actually results in more and bigger government.

Ask me, and I will cite hard cold proof of how the opposite of "libertarian" -- that is, "somebody who believes in the principle that people should have complete freedom of thought and action" (which, by the way, is the state that God Himself bequeathed us, along with His greatest gift, Jesus).

Ansell, my FRiend, I can cite more than one poignanty example of how the opposite of "libertarian" has increased sloth, envy, promiscuity, divorce, moral decline, not to mention jobs, prosperity, and employment.

When you FORGET libertarian principle, you have a government that has taken it upon itself to be the dispenser of moral justice and responsiblity such as charity and compassion. In government's hands, those HAVE been used, with the fruits of OUR labor, to propagate all kinds of moral malaise and furthermore, to LEGALLY HALT any actions in our communities to stop them.

Thomas Sowell is a libertarian. Rethink your take.

[grania]

I just don't know how this ends well. I don't trust "conservatives" at all, after Rubio and Ryan are showing that they don't really care about stopping the invasion. And Sara Palin? I want to believe, but she has yet to renounce her support of McCain.

It's naive to think that conservatives can do it without bringing in some of the fed-up element from dems and independents.

We lost it when Boehner caved and let the federal debt increase. As far as I can see now, it's a matter of survival. That's a huge reason why getting as many invaders out of the US, and keeping them out, is crucial.

When I talk about some sort of working with libertarians, it's because I'm (fingers crossed) hopeful that Rand Paul can do something positive, especially now that he seems a bit more cognizant of conservative issues.