[Cboldt]

-- Which is exactly what I said in the first case. Assault is a felony, too. If what you say is true, muggers can't claim self-defense, but just plain old attackers (rapists) can. --

What you said is that starting a fight forfeits the right to self defense. That is false. Pay particular attention to all that follows the bolded "unless" in the statute.

FS 776.041 - Use of Force by Aggressor

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.

The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

If a mugger threatens force, but not so much that it creates a reasonable fear of serious injury or worse, and you draw a gun, you have escalated. Chances of a mugger uses less than deadly force as a threat is slim, but the legal principle on use of force is driven by the downside risk posed by the threat or use of force.

Threat or commission of rape is considered a serious harm, and can be met with deadly force.

My remark about the felony having to be independent of the confrontation that includes threat or use of force applies to 776.041(1). Lots of people conflate 776.041(1) with the action of violence itself, but as I said, there is a ton of Florida case law on that point.

[Sherman Logan]

Threat or commission of rape is considered a serious harm, and can be met with deadly force.

So how does that differ from being beaten up? Is that not considered "serious harm?"

Not being an attorney, I'll have to take your word on the case law, but I fail to see how someone attacking me solely because he wants to beat me up doesn't in itself constitute "the commission of a forcible felony."

Which you'll note in (1) doesn't have the unlesses attached that (2) does.