ABC's Dan Abrams On Zimmerman: 'I Don't See How A Jury Convicts'

NewsBusters ^ | Mark Finkelstein

[governsleastgovernsbest]

No wonder Dan Abrams left MSNBC . . . The former legal analyst at the "Lean Forward" network, now at ABC, expressed an opinion this morning that would surely be unwelcome at his former shop.

Guest-hosting on Good Morning America, Abrams opined that as a legal matter "I don't see how a jury convicts" George Zimmerman of murder or manslaughter. Abrams sees too much reasonable doubt in the prosecution's case to warrant a guilty verdict.

View the video here.

[nathanbedford]

The defense should ask for a jury instruction to the effect that, if the jury finds that Zimmerman is not guilty of second-degree murder because he properly acted in self-defense then they must also acquit him of manslaughter.

That is because the elements of the right to self defense, if found, apply equally to second-degree murder charges as to manslaughter charges. The difference in these charges go to the mental capacity of the defendant. If the defendant used deadly force because he "reasonably" apprehended that he was in imminent danger of serious bodily harm, he exercised a right to self-defense that has nothing to do with the mens rea or mental processes which must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt to convict for manslaughter or murder II.

It seems me the right of self-defense is available to someone who reasonably apprehends immediate serious bodily harm even if one has a depraved mind and even wishes to kill his attacker. The right to self-defense legalizes the use of "deadly" force.

When the prosecutor argued that to shoot someone in the heart is prima facie evidence of a depraved mind and evil intent, his argument technically had to be limited to the charge of murder II, to prove an evil intent, and could not have been logically directed to the legitimacy of the argument of self-defense. I think counsel for the defendant should have made this clearer. By definition, self-defense explicitly legitimatizes the use of "deadly" force which I presume embraces within it the shooting of an attacker through the heart.

I have no doubt that if the judge fails to instruct the jury in this manner that will only increase the danger for Zimmerman of a compromise verdict in which the jury confuses the "reasonableness" of determining whether he was in imminent danger of serious bodily harm (to substantiate self-defense) with the mental elements necessary to prove manslaughter (elements which the prosecutor must prove to establish other manslaughter or murder II). It is worth noting here that the prosecutor must disprove beyond a reasonable doubt the defendant's hypothesis justifying self-defense. Nevertheless, a jury is likely to decide that Zimmerman, while entitled to defend himself, overreacted and should not have shot Martin and they therefore will split the baby and find him guilty of a lesser included charge, manslaughter. This is a logical inconsistency and this is why Zimmerman is entitled to the charge I suggest.

When the judge declines, as I predict, to instruct the jury in this manner, at least the predicate has been laid for an appeal.

[moehoward]

——>”It’s enough for them to wonder about the missing report.”

I’d be surprised if MoM doesn’t bring up the dirty tox screen in front of the jury. Otherwise the jury might assume the reason it wasn’t entered into evidence is because it was clean.

Any rational person would assume such an obvious contributing factor would NOT be excluded....

[montag813]

Can the jury convict him of manslaughter, or just the murder charge?

[usconservative]

That is the one thing she can’t do. She can only overturn a guilty verdict, she can’t overturn a not guilty verdict.

Thanks for that clarification. With that in mind, I suspect as you state there's likely a very good chance that she'll find some reason to declare a mis-trial to make Zimmerman go through this whole thing again given the Prosecution's complete and total ineptness. This IMO is a trial that never should've occurred with the evidence that was (a) available at the time and (b) available now.

You know a trial's going bad for the prosecution when the Judge has to (seemingly) coach the prosecution from the bench, and especially when the prosecution's witnesses actually validate the Defense!

Making matters even worse, the Prosecution has had to on several occasions impeach their own witnesses!

Why is this trial even occurring? Oh, that's right: Obama blew the racial dogwhistle with his "If I had a son..." statement.

This is not the America I know and love where everything is completely bass-ackwards and all logic, sound judgment and common sense are completely GONE.

[Georgia Girl 2]

“I don’t see how a jury convicts”

Duh!!

[Gay State Conservative]

Can a Florida judge toss the jury’s verdict and issue her own?

I'm not a lawyer but I think that,at least in some states,a judge has the power to strike down or overrule a jury's *guilty* verdict but not a "not guilty" verdict.

[Jabba the Nutt]

Dan Abrams is more than just a guy, who was at MSNBC. He was an anchor, then he was General Manager in one of MSNBC's attempts to save itself as a news network. I even remember when MSNBC was going to organize it's primetime around Donahue as its saviour.

They keep trying to save the recipe of far left nitwits and get it to garner viewers.

[MinuteGal]

"....but this is FloriDUH we're talking about....."

I get your drift, but as a native Illinoisan now retired in FloriDUH let me tell you that the problem here is the transplants from New York City and its environs that put the DUH in FloriDUH.

They are everywhere, loud, pushy and aggressive Democrats....seemingly all of them retired from the NYC street and sewer departments .....and now moled into every town board, homeowners association board, election commission and parade committee in the state.

They surround me....and they all still love Obama.

The native southern-type Floridians are conservative and vote GOP and are in a constant state of fright and retreat from the perpetual onslaught of the busy, intrusive, hyper, irritatingly-accented, noisy, pushy, condo-commando, socialist-gimme NYCers that never seem to sleep or to lie back in this paradise to smell the hibiscus, LOL.

Leni

[ironman]

The fact that blood was drawn for the purposes of a toxicology screen was mentioned in front of the jury.

[ironman]

I think you misunderstood post 21. Submariners wife is suggesting GZ will win an appeal if his is convicted, not that JDN has some chance of getting promoted to an appellate court. In fact this is her last criminal case and is being moved to civil court.

[ironman]

That was reporter Matt Gutman. His reporting alone is good reason GZ should file a defamation suit against ABC along with the suit he has already filed against NBC.

[southphilly]

6 women on the jury...2 alts

[Gay State Conservative]

The fact that blood was drawn for the purposes of a toxicology screen was mentioned in front of the jury.

OK,but there was *something* regarding those tests that was withheld from the jury per order of the judge.I *think*,but am not sure,that she ordered that the fact that the ME *now* believes that the little buddy of Miss Slim Jeans had enough THC in his system to possibly affect his thinking and actions.I listened to a good part of that particular hearing...which was conducted while the jurors were outside of the court room.Of course I could have misunderstood what I was hearing.I'm not a lawyer nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

[Gay State Conservative]

Ooops...

...affect his thinking and actions--->be withheld from the jury.

[Lancey Howard]

It is still possible to empanel a jury of people who are so ignorant they couldn’t spell “DNA” if you spotted them the ‘D’ the ‘N’ and the ‘A’, so therefore it is still possible that Zimmerman could be convicted. How did the defense allow a jury of all women?

[usconservative]

I get your drift, but as a native Illinoisan now retired in FloriDUH let me tell you that the problem here is the transplants from New York City and its environs that put the DUH in FloriDUH.

Hi Leni, as a current resident of the People's Socialist RepuliK of the Sick and Illannoyed, I know Illinois isn't much (if any) better. Your comment re: the east coast transplants from NY (and I hear NJ also) isn't the first time I've heard that, and I believe it to be true. The retired snow-birds that infest FloriDUH probably do ruin it for the rest of y'all.

Regards,
USC

[Patton@Bastogne]

.


I'm a resident of Tampa Florida ...


Florida's east coast is a cultural "wasteland" ... full-to-the-toilet-bowl-rim with transplanted New York City types and such (general) cultural and intellectual garbage ...


Florida's west coast is a little better, with many midwestern retirees.


Anything south of Naples is to be avoided like the plague ... it's all Miami-vice ...


.

[Popman]

As a Tampa resident for over 20 years....I concur....

[djf]

I thought this was an all-or-nothing deal... murder or acquittal.

Can they find him guilty of a lesser charge?