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Judge considers lesser charges for Zimmerman

Posted on 07/10/2013 6:47:08 PM PDT by Perdogg

link only USA Today


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: 3rddegreemurder; debranelson; judgenelson; trayvon; zimmerman; zimmermantrial
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To: kvanbrunt2

can the lawyer explain that in the closing arguments? thus trumping the judges illegal instructions


Hope so. From what I read about MOM’s press conference yesterday he
did state something to the effect that if he’s not guilty of murder 2 then
he can’t be found guilty of manslaughter.

from greta wire.com - their summary of his presser

“what george did was intentional act reason why was self defense doesnt suggest manslaughter charge woudl be appropriate”


141 posted on 07/11/2013 6:56:28 AM PDT by patriotspride
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To: Perdogg

This never would’ve gotten to trial had Zimmerman claimed he was an illegal. La Raza would’ve thrown up the shields and shouted “HANDS OFF!”


142 posted on 07/11/2013 7:05:44 AM PDT by ScottinVA ( Liberal is to patriotism as Kermit Gosnell is to neonatal care.)
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To: clintonh8r

What I can not understand or fathom is..How can you instruct ajury on a lesser charge WITHOUT TELLING THEM WHAT THE PUNISHMENT IS?????

that’s just crazy.


143 posted on 07/11/2013 7:08:32 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Will Freepr combat)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

Yes it is the time when the parties start talking about jury instructions. It is not the time when new charges are brought.

The prosecuting attorney had all the time he needed to decide what he wanted to charge Zimmerman with, PRIOR TO THE TRIAL starting.

Now he wants to change it. I don’t see that as reasonable.

Zimmerman should have known the charges up front. He should have been able to launch a defense knowing full well what those charges would be.

No that the trial is nearly over, new charges, new options are being devised.

Sorry, I could be wrong as can be, but I do not see that as reasoned.

Was he charged with Second Degree murder, or was he charged with manslaughter? It makes a difference. He should have been able to defend against manslaughter during the trial, if that’s what he was going to ultimately face.

He wasn’t given that opportunity.


144 posted on 07/11/2013 7:30:43 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Breaking News: Hillary not running in 2016. Brain tumor found during recent colonoscopy...)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
The risk (and a significant one, with this judge) is that the prosecution would ask for, and the judge will grant, a mistrial. This trial has gone very, very well for Zimmerman - the possibility of having to do it all over again is not something he would want to risk.

Ahhh...and then, what about attorney costs??? Zimmerman was already running on empty.

145 posted on 07/11/2013 7:40:41 AM PDT by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: DoughtyOne

Manslaughter is a lesser included offense to Murder, under Florida law. That means that every element of Manslaughter is also an element (or is within an element) of second-degree murder. It also means that jury instructions are the proper time to introduce it. That’s just how things work in Florida (and most other states), and as a Florida attorney, Zimmerman’s lawyers knew that and I’m sure they prepared their defense with that in mind.


146 posted on 07/11/2013 7:45:33 AM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: mountn man

Yes, the attorney costs would be significant. And, of course, there is always the risk that the testimony at a second trial wouldn’t be as favorable for Zimmerman (for one obvious example, you can bet that Martin’s “friend” would be better prepped to testify). Based on how this trial has gone, if I were Zimmerman’s lawyer, I would make damn sure I didn’t do anything to risk a mistrial.


147 posted on 07/11/2013 7:47:39 AM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

Thank you for the explanation. And where does child abuse figure in? ;^)

I would hope that didn’t fly. There’s where I’d really have to draw the line.


148 posted on 07/11/2013 7:50:43 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Breaking News: Hillary not running in 2016. Brain tumor found during recent colonoscopy...)
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To: DoughtyOne
I'm not watching the live-stream right now, so I'm not entirely sure what they're arguing about re: child abuse. Looking at the chart of lesser-included offenses under Florida law, I see that Felony Murder (third degree) is listed as a "Category 2" lesser-included charge to second-degree murder - as I understand it, the judge may give an instruction on category 2 lesser-included charges over the objections of one party (but is not required to do so). Felony murder is typically defined as a death that occurs during the commission of some list of enumerated offenses.

Without having looked at the statute, I would guess that child abuse is one of the enumerated offenses for third-degree felony murder (or, possibly, that third-degree felony murder covers all felonies not covered by first- and second-degree felony murder), and the State is arguing that the jury should be instructed to consider whether Zimmerman was "abusing" Martin, and thus whether Martin's death occurred during the course of Zimmerman's "abuse."

As I said, though, I'm not watching the proceedings, nor am I familiar with the particular Florida statutes - this is just a guess based on my general understanding of criminal law, so take it with a grain mound of salt.

149 posted on 07/11/2013 8:07:21 AM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

The reference to ‘Child abuse’ was made related to a Drudge headline saying the prosecutor was going to seek to add that in too. That may or may not take place.

At any rate, as much as I can, I understand the points you were making related to offenses that could be grandfathered in under each category.

I appreciate the points.


150 posted on 07/11/2013 8:16:07 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Breaking News: Hillary not running in 2016. Brain tumor found during recent colonoscopy...)
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To: cripplecreek

prosecutors also now want to try to charge him with child abuse .

maybe they can get him on littering ,too. (for getting his own blood from the back of his head on a public sidewalk)

probably jaywalked sometime that night as well.


151 posted on 07/11/2013 8:18:46 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad & lived with his parents most his life.)
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To: Perdogg
this is insane.
152 posted on 07/11/2013 8:43:33 AM PDT by Drawn7979
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To: newfreep

Good line to a different movie.


153 posted on 07/11/2013 8:49:38 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: cuban leaf
Next the judge will instruct the jury to consider the charge of littering and creating a nuisance so the judge can at least sentenced Zimmerman to sit on the Group W bench.
154 posted on 07/11/2013 9:07:03 AM PDT by Carl Vehse
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To: bmwcyle

What a time to live & see a nation crumbling right in front of you. Can you imagine in 10 or 20 yrs from now. You will wish that you were in the Russia. This POS judge, this compromised Supreme Court (Roberts), this bought & paid for CONgress & Mr & Mrs taxpayer (whitie) will sit on their arses & allow it to happen & them as they head to the Gulag.


155 posted on 07/11/2013 9:10:50 AM PDT by Digger
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To: LUV W

“This judge is incompetent to say the least.”

I disagree. I think she is a portent of things to come in the USA where the judiciary will become just another organ of the Communist Party that’s currently running this country.


156 posted on 07/11/2013 9:15:10 AM PDT by MeganC (A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll never need one again.)
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To: 101stAirborneVet

The judge looks like Chris Farley.


157 posted on 07/11/2013 9:16:05 AM PDT by isthisnickcool (NO MORE IRS!)
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To: isthisnickcool
The judge looks like Chris Farley.

Why you haten on Farley?

158 posted on 07/11/2013 9:17:36 AM PDT by Drill Thrawl (The Gubment Has No Legitimacy. It needs to be Removed!)
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To: isthisnickcool

“The judge looks like Chris Farley.”

There seems to be three schools of thought on this matter: the judge is a ringer for an in-drag version of either Farley, Goodman or Meatloaf.

I wish we could settle on one!


159 posted on 07/11/2013 9:32:04 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: popdonnelly
If the State of Florida gets away with this, any Florida citizen who is not Law Enforcement should just turn in their guns, because there will never be a clear time when they can use them in self-defense.

They'll just be paperweights.

160 posted on 07/11/2013 9:45:02 AM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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