Posted on 07/24/2013 1:27:04 AM PDT by grundle
On Monday, BMW announced that the U.S. base price for its all-electric i3 will be $41,350, not including any federal or state incentives. For General Motors' Chevy Volt, and possibly Tesla Motor's Model S, BMW's move spells major trouble. Here's why.
Bad news, GM
With a starting MSRP of $39,145 in 2012, the Volt was the best-selling EV, and it's not hard to see why. Really more of an electric hybrid than a straight EV, the Volt combines a 9.3-gallon fuel tank with a lithium-ion battery. This combination allows the Volt can go an estimated 38 miles on pure battery before switching to regular fuel, which extends the range to an estimated 380 miles. Because of this combination, the Volt cuts down on range anxiety, which is still a huge deterrent to getting consumers into EVs.
Now, compare the above to BMW's all-electric i3: According to BMW, the i3 has a pure-electric range of 80-100 miles, thanks to its lithium-ion battery, and has an optional range extender that lengthens that initial range by 80 miles. Plus, thanks to BMW's eDrive technology, a driver can extend the initial range up to 124 miles by putting the vehicle in one of the "EcoPro" modes.
Right away you can see the problem. Not only does BMW's i3 go farther on pure battery power, but with the purchase of the optional range extender, range anxiety goes way down. More pointedly, the base MSRP for the BMW is only $2,000 more than the Volt. I don't know about you, but if I had to decide between spending $39,000 for a Volt, or $2,000 more for a BMW, I'm going with the BMW, hands down.
Tesla, this is bad for you, too
Right now, Tesla is the crème-de-la-crème of EVs. But it's competing against all-electric EVs like Nissan Motors' Leaf, and Ford's Focus Electric. To put it simply, Tesla's Model S can drive circles around these cars. Yes, it's more expensive, but the technology, range, and precision of the Model S makes anything else seem almost silly in comparison. BMW, however, is a luxury brand with renowned German engineering, and its new i3, and the future i8 model, presents a new challenge for Tesla.
Consider this: The i3, designed from the ground up as an EV, has received praise from some of the industry's harshest EV critics. As BBC's "Top Gear" drivers put it:
At first sampling, then, this is a compelling electric car. It's not the first on the market, but BMW has put some original thinking into almost every part of its design and engineering. It drives sweetly, is distinctively designed, and has the reassuring range-extender option if you are anxious about running flat.
These are the same critics that gave Tesla's Roadster a less than glowing report -- in fact, Tesla sued the show for "libel and malicious falsehood" because of the review.
What to watch for
The i3 isn't set to hit showrooms until the second quarter of 2014, and right now it's too soon to predict exactly how this will affect GM and Tesla's sales. However, given BMW's reputation, the i3's reviews, and the just released base price, this is something investors would do well to monitor.
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The new diesels’ have them all beat. I’m considering a VW in a year or so.
>>>>Why won’t bring hi-end diesels here?
>>Excellent question.
The real reason we don’t get more here, vs. what is offered in Europe, is over-regulation. EPA mileage and NHTSA crash test certifications are very expensive, and must be performed for every body/engine/transmission variation.
And Sooth, see my previous regarding what Audi is doing.
all you have to do is make a commercial where zombies are chasing people in an electric car and they are at their range limit......
No, everybody else does. He's getting a subsidy for his plaything.
Tax Credit For Electric-Car Charging Station Is Back
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1081776_reminder-tax-credit-for-electric-car-charging-station-is-back
I agree so much with this. In EMEA, the Smart car has or had a 0.75 liter turbodiesel that could deliver 60-70 MPG. Now we’re talkin’. Of course, the EPA won’t let them use that engine in the US...
If I understand your question correctly, any hybrid will allow you to do that. A "hybrid" car is gasoline powered, with a complex electro/mechanical drive train and an electrical storage battery. It is refueled at a standard gasoline station, using standard 87 octane gasoline, at the same rate as a standard gasoline powered car with a purely mechanical drive train.
I had an ‘89 Jetta diesel that I paid $2500 for in the mid 90’s. It could go 750 miles on a tank of fuel. It got 45 MPG with the AC on and my foot on the floor most of the time, which was where it needed to be because it only made about 55 HP. If I drove it easy, I could get over 50 MPG. I drove that thing well over 100,00 miles without any drive train parts failing.
Battery powered cars are asinine except for a very small niche of applications.
>>>Anyone purchasing and driving a diesel vehicle should have to sit behind and idling one in traffic for thirty minutes a day.
I am so over all these farm punks and their chipped up, fartpiped Rams, F350s, and Silverados with stock turbos blowing a cloud of lingering particulates every time they leave an intersection.
Diesels are for heavy duty lawn mowers, construction equipment, tractors and semi trucks. Come out with your high end oil burners and try on my DOHC, turbocharged, intercoooled, direct injected GASOLINE powered ride sometime. Just please let me have the lane opposite your exhaust outlet.<<<
You certainly haven’t seen any modern European diesel vehicle. I’m sure you won’t tell it from a gasoline one in 5 minutes after engine started. No noise, no smell. More power.
You do know that all the new diesels require a special “exhaust fluid” that needs to be refilled after 6-10k miles.
It would be perfect for my commute: about 40-50 miles round trip, normal side jogs included, 5 days/wk.
Sometimes if a product does not meet your needs the product is not for you and you were not the intended customer. New technologies have to start somewhere and satisfy a small audience before reaching everyone.
Is that difficult or relatively expensive? Seems easy to do while changing the oil.
Not perfect at all. The spent cells won't hold a charge and have to be reprocessed. I don't know what a spent 1200 pound lithium battery is worth but my guess is a couple grand since raw lithium is about $3 a pound.
Tesla is offering an 8 year unlimited mile warranty
I'm sure it has fine print. Discharging lithium results in death in some number of cycles regardless of miles traveled and number of years. Using the car heater to stay warm or driving at night will result in full discharge in a lot less miles than the advertised range (which is exaggerated to begin with).
I did not say comparable car.
The average transaction price of a new car in 2012 was just a tick over $31k.
A Prius can be had below that.
>>>Why won’t bring hi-end diesels here?
Excellent question.
BTW, why not hybridize a hi-tech diesel car?<<<
There is no sense to do it at all. I think one of the most fuel efficient cars on any market is a diesel Kia Rio CRDi. It makes 88 mpg and sells at about 12 thousand euro.
Now imagine you are making a hybrid out of it to add some miles more. First of all it will be at least twice more expensive car. Add a battery issues and no sane greedy German will ever buy it even if it won’t eat any fuel at all. It is the most efficient vehicle already!
And there are about a dozen other models by Seat, Fiat, Skoda, VW and Vauxhall making over 60 mpg.
I believe there are a compact French diesel-electric SUV by Peugeot and similar sub-compact car by VW but they are a niche vehicles and never had any decent sales. I’m not sure if both are still being built.
Diesels produce way too much nitrous oxide and fine particle emissions.
More importantly, they still feed the OPEC-Al Qaeda terrorist complex.
Does the electric car get plugged in at peak usage times (i.e. 6-8 pm)? Then the cost is passed to me, the neighbor. If done in the wee hours, then not as much. Another cost that will be passed to me is upgrading the wires. Full electric cars require an enormous amount of power and therefore new copper has to be strung.
It means exactly what it says.
The key to compelling electric cars is managing the batteries.
That is highly complex software.
So we have people that will actually go out and buy a 40k electric car that has a higher total cost of ownership than almost any other vehicle in it's price range all out of some panic state that they have been propagandized into believing.
Want to save the environment you whiny moronic sheep? Go buy a Harley. They have better resale than almost any car and even their big bikes average low 50's MPG on highways. When it's all used up you can sell it to a yuppie dentist that is having a midlife crisis. Assuming you don't become an organ donor that is...but hey it's all about the circle of life isn't it?
In MN?
Tesla will do very well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ5PqPeOPT0
Tesla Model S cold weather testing in Norway.
The batteries are cooled in hot weather and warmed in cold weather.
Will also do very well in Phoenix but don’t have a video.
Tesla is not Fisker.
It is a serious engineering company not an exterior design and marketing firm.
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