Posted on 08/03/2013 10:45:53 PM PDT by grundle
Public education began its long decline long before the federal government got deeply involved. And conservative southern states were often educational laggards decades ago (although one difference is that these states were run by conservative Democrats, now, there are more Republicans in power).
"Public schools used to do a good job educating children."
In some places, they did, in other place, not really.
sitetest
While many parents in the 1800s and early 1900s could have taught their children to read and write, I doubt they could have done as good a job as public schools teaching beyond basic skills down South or elsewhere.
I disagree. Human beings are born with the ability to be parents, and for nearly all of human history, that meant teaching their children (often in cooperation with other parents and families), not sending them off to strangers to be taught.
Especially in the earlier grades, the vast majority of parents who bother to marry before having babies, and who bother to stay married, are quite capable of teaching or supervising the education of their children.
I've frequently seen homeschooling parents help their children learn academic subjects that were beyond the initial knowledge of the parent herself, either through the “one step ahead” method (just make sure you learn the material one step ahead of your kid), or through obtaining third-party materials and supervising their use, or through homeschooling co-ops or tutoring.
As for the relative difference between what parents can do versus what public schools can do, the dirty little secret is that the public schools generally available to the kids whose parents would most be in over their heads homeschooling generally are the public schools that suck, that don't prepare anyone for anything, that teach little and mostly warehouse their wards. The children who get to go to "good" public schools are generally the children of the folks best able to homeschool their children.
Good homeschooling beats even good public schools hands-down nearly every time. And even mediocre or poor homeschooling beats a bad public school every time.
It was that way a hundred years ago; it's that way still today.
sitetest
“This stat means nothing.”
Well, it doesn’t mean nothing, but you are right in that the statistic is somewhat “self-selecting” for many of the reasons you stated.
The best conclusion is, in my opinion that home-schooled kids can be high achieving (It doesn’t matter why) - so no interference is necessary from external sources - leave it alone.
I don’t think it takes away from high-achieving kids in any other venue. Similarly, it doesn’t mean that your kid will automatically become high-achieving simply by home-schooling them either. Both of those would be erroneous conclusions.
I’d like to see parents of homeschoolers be able to keep some of their tax money that would otherwise be used on their kids behalf in public while they are homeschooling them, or even sending them to private school.
“I have not found homeschoolers to be any more or less intelligent than public/private school parents.”
I think you’ll find a significantly higher proportion of intact families amongst homeschoolers. You’ll also find a higher proportion with some college. I can’t quote the stat source at the moment.
So you think all those children with one parent who is functionally illiterate could learn better from that parent than at a competent school? The fact is the numbers of home-schooled children is only at about 5% or less of the total numbers of school age children. And those parents are highly motivated. Good for them. As I keep repeating, I’m not against home schooling. I’m just saying you’re never going to get a sizable percentage of parents who will be able to home school their children.
“So you think all those children with one parent who is functionally illiterate could learn better from that parent than at a competent school?”
If we're talking about a single head of household, without a spouse who is not illiterate, sure, such a child might learn more in a decent school. Or not. But you're searching for hens’ teeth. Children of illiterate single heads of household rarely get to go to good public schools. They would generally be better off, or at least no worse off, being homeschooled than going to the crappy public school to which they are likely assigned.
“The fact is the numbers...”
I didn't say that the numbers of homeschoolers were going to skyrocket. I said that many more families could homeschool than do, that there is no bar in terms of ability for 50% or more of families to homeschool their children. And I said that our country would be much better off if such a percentage did homeschool.
sitetest
I know a couple college professors, a few with masters, many with BA/BS’s and many with just high school under their belt.
But any public school professional parents can have the same showing.
Wrong. It's only a small percentage of parents who are NOT capable of homeschooling their kids.
But alright, let's say, against all the evidence, many parents decide to quit working and one of them decides to be a teacher. How many are qualified to teach upper level math and the sciences? You talk about some wide-ranging network of people to help with that problem. How many of the helpers do you think you'd need to educate many millions more students. Why don't you just send the children to a central place? You know, these places called schools. Sorry, your dream of half the nation's school children being home schooled is just not going to happen.
In the upper grades, homeschoolers often teach themselves, just like college students do, and just like most government high school kids actually do.
There are plenty of on-line resources to fill in the gaps. That's what my daughter did, even though I was qualified to teach her. I did help her out from time to time, but she often corrected me.
Have you ever learned a software program by reading the manual? I was shocked when I learned that a software program that took me a week to learn, and be functional in, was offered as a semester-long course in art school.
Think of how focused children would be, and how quickly children would learn, if their courses were modularized, and where they could advance after passing a test. They wouldn't just sit around killing time.
I noticed this with my homeschool kids. Once they learned that they could go out and play after finishing their assignments, they got down to business, and finished their work quickly.
Sure, there will some kids who will be smart enough and motivated enough to learn by themselves. That’s always been true. But I haven’t still haven’t read anything to make me believe home schooling will be adopted by the great majority of the nation’s families.
“I repeat: you're going to lucky if you can get 10% to be home schooled.”
You may be right.
But I wasn't saying how many folks WOULD homeschool, only how many COULD homeschool. I also said it would be good for the country if more that COULD WOULD.
As to how many folks COULD homeschool, have the ability - I'd say that way more than half of parents could do a good job. Will they? I don't expect 50%+ of families to start homeschooling. But they could do it, if they were willing to make the sacrifice.
You're right that most folks work, now. And most folks would really hate to give up the second household income. But it can be done. It's all in your priorities.
I'm embarrassed to talk about what my wife and I gave up, because honestly, driftless2, what we gave up is immeasurably small to what we gained, infinitesimal compared to our reward. I feel almost petty to talk about our “sacrifice.”
Yet, my wife was a well-paid office manager when we had our first son and she decided to be a stay-at-home mom. Over the nearly two decades since, we've easily foregone the better part of a million dollars in income. That is only part of the “costs” we've incurred to educate and rear our children.
But what we have received back is priceless beyond diamonds and pearls, gold and silver. We have two sons who love God, who endeavor to serve Him first with their talents and lives, who have excelled academically beyond imagining, who are thoughtful, considerate, responsible, compassionate, who know right from wrong and endeavor always to do right, who respect and love their parents, and who are hardworking and ambitious to do their own personal best.
That's the priceless stuff.
There's also stuff to which a price can be attached, like the opportunities open to them as a result of their academic success.
The bottom line is, if it's a priority to you, you can homeschool. It's certainly worth the hard work and sacrifice.
And most folks can homeschool. Even through high school. The only reason why our sons went to Catholic high school instead of homeschooling through high school is because there was one high school that we felt would provide a comparably-good education to homeschooling, and it is a school with which my family has been associated since 1966. Even so, it is my sons who made the final choice.
“How many are qualified to teach upper level math and the sciences?”
Well, my younger son is starting his senior year in high school in a few weeks, and for us, it's a bit of “back to the future.” He's already taken the school's top math and physics class. I'm in no position to teach him multivariate calculus or advanced physics. My wife, neither. The one teacher at the high school who could do it can't fit two independent study courses for my son into his schedule.
So, we'll use on-line course ware. MIT has turned both classes into on-line courses, complete with texts, assignments, practice problems, video lectures, tests, and even real-time chat rooms to get help from others. Cost? Free. Same course ware used at MIT to teach these very classes to MIT undergraduates.
We have access to a homeschool mom who has a masters in engineering and is ABD in math. But we pay her, and if she weren't available, there are tutoring companies locally who could provide similar services.
I expect, though, that my son will need little assistance, since, as a homeschooler (even though he's been going to a traditional school for the past three years, like the Marines, there are no ex-homeschoolers), he will teach himself.
“You talk about some wide-ranging network of people to help with that problem. How many of the helpers do you think you'd need to educate many millions more students.”
With the plethora of resources available these days, fewer than you might think. And if demand increased, I suspect, so would supply. You may not realize it, but there are a lot of folks with degrees in math and science, and other fields, who would love to make the world a better place by transmitting their knowledge to students, but often can't because public schools will generally not permit them to teach math, science, history, philosophy, or whatever because all they have are degrees in math, science, history, philosophy or whatever, rather than the all-important degree in education!
And a lot of these folks ultimately conclude, it's a lot more fun to teach homeschoolers than public school students, anyway, because they're generally better-behaved, more polite and well-mannered, harder workers, and better prepared to handle the material, academically.
In our own extended group of homeschoolers over the years, I can count any number of folks who were able to teach advanced math, science, and other fields.
But even if these folks didn't exist within our group, there are many resources outside of our group that can be utilized.
“Why don't you just send the children to a central place? You know, these places called schools.”
I'm not against traditional schools. I'm against public schools. Good private schools can do a good job of educating students. But they're often very expensive, and most folks can do a better job of schooling at home than most good private schools can, and it's usually a whole lot cheaper.
As well, there are other benefits that are not strictly academic that accrue to homeschooling.
“Sorry, your dream of half the nation's school children being home schooled is just not going to happen.”
Although it'd be a great thing, I don't expect it to happen. That's something that you've project on to me. I figure homeschooling will increase, but most folks who could do it are probably too short-sighted to do so.
At least, for now.
sitetest
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