Marine Corps identifies some of the wounded in mortar accident

strs &.stripes ^ | March 22, 2013 | Jennifer Hlad

[Rabin]

The Marines call Naval Criminal Investigative Service to conduct the probe into a fatal training accident, officials with Headquarters Marine Corps said Wednesday afternoon. The investigation has been ongoing since a 66mm mortar shell exploded in its tube Monday night during training at the Hawthorne Army Depot in Nevada, killing seven Marines and wounding eight more.

[Rabin]

// snipp //

http://www.militarytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013306040041

results of the command investigation May 29, 2013

19-year-old Pfc. Joshua Micheal Martino, the youngest of seven men of 1st Battalion, 9th Marines, who were killed when a 60mm mortar round exploded during nighttime training at Hawthorne Army Depot, Nev.

Family members of the killed young men, met with battalion commander Lt. Col. Andrew McNulty and Marine Commandant Gen. Jim Amos, @ Camp Lejeune, for a memorial ceremony.... Brig. Gen. James Lukeman, relieved McNulty, company commander Capt. Kelby Breivogel, and battalion infantry weapons officer Chief Warrant Officer 3 Douglas Derring...

there was no equipment malfunction with the 60mm mortar system ..said the suspension of the M224A1 60mm mortar system for all Marine Corps commands has now been lifted. A spokesman for 2nd Marine Division, 1st Lt. Peter Koerner; results of the command investigation are preliminary; no other information was immediately available.???

R.

[LurkingSince1943]

Did you know PFC Martino?

I only ask because this accident happened about 4 months ago.

What caught my eye this time around was it involved 1/9, “The Walking Dead.” My good buddy was floating off North Vietnam with them in 1972. He has a link on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/116391715073395/

Semper Fi. RIP, Marines.

[MasterGunner01]

For the record, the U.S. Armed Forces do NOT use 66mm mortars. The caliber of U.S. light mortars since WW2 has been 60mm. The M72 series Light Anti-tank Weapon (LAW) does use a 66mm HEAT rocket, though.

[mosesdapoet]

Yea, I was thinking do they mean 60mm ? Then that would be the difference between a Laws anti-armor 66mm shoulder held and a 60mm AP base plate fired apples and grapefruit difference

[Chainmail]

The word I got was that these Marines were training for night firing the 60mm mortars and one of the two mortar crews double-loaded one of the mortars (they are trigger-fired, not drop-fired) in the dark and one or both rounds detonated high-order. Both mortar crews were right next to each other and the rumor I got was that they were not closely supervised during the firing.

People sometimes forget that artillery and mortar training is always very dangerous - since there is no such thing as "training" rounds; every round is as lethal as possible. All training, in particular night training, requires very close observation and discipline. All these young men died/were wounded unnecessarily because their leaders left them insufficiently supervised. The relief of their commanders for cause would be appropriate.

[Gay State Conservative]

Good God....

[ABN 505]

I don't know about that, nothing is more dangerous than having a freshly minted Lt. in charge of a mortar Platoon. [From my experience].Especially when there is a misfire.

[Ronald_Magnus]

Thanks for this info. I was very curious as to how this accident could have happened. I didn’t know there were trigger fired mortars, only drop in. Double loading sounds plausible. After reading about the incident some time ago, I initially thought the unthinkable. That some selfish person bent on suicide immediately covered the tube with some kind of steel plate after a round was dropped in knowing it would explode right there next to the crews. Yeah I know. Crazy.

[centurion316]

The word I got was that these Marines were training for night firing the 60mm mortars and one of the two mortar crews double-loaded one of the mortars

Your report matches what I heard. I also agree with probable cause, inadequate supervision, leadership failure.

[Flag_This]

"since there is no such thing as "training" rounds; every round is as lethal as possible."

Is this true? They don't have rounds that can be fired without being high explosive?

[Chainmail]

It is true: all training is done with combat rounds. As an artillery battalion commander, safety was a constant focus for me. No second chances once that round leaves the tube.

[Flag_This]

"It is true: all training is done with combat rounds."

Wow. We had training rounds for the 203 grenade launcher, we had sub-cal rounds for the AT-4 and LAW, I've even watched an F-111 fly directly over my head and release a blue painted bomb which, of course, didn't explode when it impacted down range. I had no idea about the mortars, since I wasn't an 11-C.

With the 40mm grenade, it had to travel about 40 meters before it was armed and could explode - I guess that's not the case with mortars?

[Chainmail]

Supposedly, artillery and mortar fuzes are safe until they get some distance from the muzzle but if the bore is blocked - like by another round - the pressures and temperature can get high enough to detonate the HE without the fuze acting.

A number of years ago, a 155mm gun crew at Fort Sill rammed a projectile without a fuze just to get rid of the round and go home. The nose plug was out and a supplementary charge (a small can of TNT) was ejected in front of the round, next to the front of the round. When they pulled the lanyard, that little can of TNT was compressed between the round and the bore and went off, sympathetically detonating the 7.8 pounds of TNT in the projectile, which blew out the whole left rear of the howitzer breech.
Six men died and they never found any trace of the Gunner.

Dangerous stuff.

[Flag_This]

"... if the bore is blocked - like by another round - the pressures and temperature can get high enough to detonate the HE without the fuze acting."

Ohhhhhh....now I get it. Blocking a rifle barrel = BAD. Blocking a mortar tube = Very, very bad. Thank you for the explanation.

Yes, there are literally thousands and thousands of ways to get killed when you're just training in the military.