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To: JCBreckenridge
Believe me, I've read the Constitution.

Every president up to van Buren was Grandfathered as an exception to the NBC clause in the US constitution.

This is *basic* US civics. You need to reread the constitution.

No, they weren't.

Historians have agreed throughout US history that all of our early Presidents were natural born citizens; that the grandfather clause was not for the sake of George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, etc., but that it was for the likes of Alexander Hamilton (born on the island of Nevis in the Caribbean) and James Wilson (born in Scotland) that the grandfather clause was passed.

No serious historian has ever claimed otherwise.

Here is some documentation that establishes that fact.

“It was doubtless introduced (for it has now become by lapse of time merely nominal, and will soon become wholly extinct) out of respect to those distinguished revolutionary patriots, who were born in a foreign land, and yet had entitled themselves to high honours in their adopted country….” United States Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution (1833)

“The exception as to those who were citizens at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, was justly due to those men who had united themselves with the fate of the new nation, and rendered eminent services in achieving its independence ; and is, necessarily, of limited continuance.” James Bayard, A brief exposition of the Constitution of the United States, pg. 96 (1833)

“Why was this exception then made ? From gratitude to those distinguished foreigners who had taken part with us during the Revolution.” John Seely Hart, A Brief Exposition of the Constitution of the United States, pg. 71 (1860)

“The idea then arose that no number of years could properly prepare a foreigner for the office of president; but as men of other lands had spilled their blood in the cause of the United States, and had assisted at every stage of the formation of their institutions, the committee of states who were charged with all unfinished business proposed, on the fourth of September, that ” no person except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the tune of the adoption of this constitution, should be eligible to the office of president.” George Bancroft, History of the formation of the Constitution of the United States of America pg 346 (1866)

“The exception in favor of such persons of foreign birth as were citizens of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, is now practically extinct. The distinguished patriots who had so faithfully served their adopted country during the revolutionary struggle, and out of respect and gratitude to whom this exception was introduced into the Constitution, have all passed away. No one, therefore, but a natural born citizen can now be elected to the office of President.” Henry Flanders, An Exposition of the Constitution of the United States (1877)

“The exception to the “natural born” qualification was the Convention’s way of paying an extraordinary compliment to Alexander Hamilton and James Wilson, two distinguished members of the Convention who were foreign born. Of course, any other foreign- born citizen having the other qualifications would have been eligible, but the clause was drawn in favor of the two statesmen here mentioned.” Edward Waterman Townsend, Our Constitution: Why and how it was Made – who Made It, and what it is pg 186 (1906)

This understanding is also confirmed by James Madison's reasoning in the Smith case. He said, in essence, that Smith had been a citizen of the community that would become the State of South Carolina since his very birth:

"I conceive the colonies remained as a political society, detached from their former connection with another society, without dissolving into a state of nature; but capable of substituting a new form of government in the place of the old one, which they had for special considerations abolished. Suppose the state of South Carolina should think proper to revise her constitution, abolish that which now exists, and establish another form of government: Surely this would not dissolve the social compact. It would not throw them back into a state of nature. It would not dissolve the union between the individual members of that society. It would leave them in perfect society, changing only the mode of action, which they are always at liberty to arrange. Mr. Smith being then, at the declaration of independence, a minor, but being a member of that particular society, he became, in my opinion, bound by the decision of the society with respect to the question of independence and change of government; and if afterward he had taken part with the enemies of his country, he would have been guilty of treason against that government to which he owed allegiance, and would have been liable to be prosecuted as a traitor."

130 posted on 08/19/2013 8:48:47 PM PDT by Jeff Winston (Yeah, I think I could go with Cruz in 2016.)
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To: Jeff Winston

“No, they weren’t.”

The constitution explicitly states that those eligible for the presidency are either a Natural Born Citizen of the United States OR a citizen AT THE TIME of the WRITING OF THE US CONSTITUTION.

This is the ‘grandfather clause’, that Grandfathered the presidents born prior to the signing of the US constitution in 1787, presidents Washington through to van Buren.

In any case, once again - the constitution is right and you are wrong.


132 posted on 08/19/2013 8:52:59 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: Jeff Winston

I believe the founders intended it to all be a matter of allegiance, Sacred Oath.

Obama Has never fulfilled these requirements,
He has been obsscure and shadowy from day one.

He continues to be so and has magnified his shadow skulking in bad deeds, while getting brazen.

He hates America.
He undoes us at every turn.


139 posted on 08/19/2013 8:56:43 PM PDT by mylife (Ted Cruz understands the law, and he does not fear the unlawful.)
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To: Jeff Winston

You misunderstood Justice Story’s commentary with respect to Article 2. The grandfather clause applied not only to Washington and others who were not natural born citizens of the United States but also to naturalized citizens such as Alexander Hamilton who was born in the British settlement of Nevis Island West Indies.

The colonies became states with the Declaration of Independence. The citizens of each state constituted the citizens of the United States when the Constitution was adopted. The Constitution was adopted in 1787 and the first presidential election took place in the year following the ratification.

All colonialists that had automatically become citizens were eligible to be President if they had accumulated 14 years of residency prior to election. The 14 years was to accomodate persons held in high esteem such as Hamilton and others. Hamilton had come to the New York Colony in 1773, exactly 14 years before the adoption.

The citizen requirement at the time of adoption also known as the grandfather clause was not aimed at only foreigners that had shown great patriotism but to all citizens at the time. Again the 14 year requirement was put there as Justice Story describes but you construed a narrower scope and you have gone off on a tangent of error where I expect you cannot return from because you are too invested in your own fallacy.

Here are Justice Story’s comments:
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a2_1_5s2.html

§ 1473. It is indispensable, too, that the president should be a natural born citizen of the United States; or a citizen at the adoption of the constitution, and for fourteen years before his election. This permission of a naturalized citizen to become president is an exception from the great fundamental policy of all governments, to exclude foreign influence from their executive councils and duties. It was doubtless introduced (for it has now become by lapse of time merely nominal, and will soon become wholly extinct) out of respect to those distinguished revolutionary patriots, who were born in a foreign land, and yet had entitled themselves to high honours in their adopted country. A positive exclusion of them from the office would have been unjust to their merits, and painful to their sensibilities. But the general propriety of the exclusion of foreigners, in common cases, will scarcely be doubted by any sound statesman. It cuts off all chances for ambitious foreigners, who might otherwise be intriguing for the office; and interposes a barrier against those corrupt interferences of foreign governments in executive elections, which have inflicted the most serious evils upon the elective monarchies of Europe. Germany, Poland, and even the pontificate of Rome, are sad, but instructive examples of the enduring mischiefs arising from this source. A residence of fourteen years in the United States is also made an indispensable requisite for every candidate; so, that the people may have a full opportunity to know his character and merits, and that he may have mingled in the duties, and felt the interests, and understood the principles, and nourished the attachments, belonging to every citizen in a republican government. By “residence,” in the constitution, is to be understood, not an absolute inhabitancy within the United States during the whole period; but such an inhabitancy, as includes a permanent domicil in the United States. No one has supposed, that a temporary absence abroad on public business, and especially on an embassy to a foreign nation, would interrupt the residence of a citizen, so as to disqualify him for office. If the word were to be construed with such strictness, then a mere journey through any foreign adjacent territory for health, or for pleasure, or a commorancy there for a single day, would amount to a disqualification. Under such a construction a military or civil officer, who should have been in Canada during the late war on public business, would have lost his eligibility. The true sense of residence in the constitution is fixed domicil, or being out of the United States, and settled abroad for the purpose of general inhabitancy, animo manendi, and not for a mere temporary and fugitive purpose, in transitu.


251 posted on 08/20/2013 1:38:51 AM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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