Skip to comments.Ariz. sheriff [Arpaio]: Armed militias beware or be shot
Posted on 08/20/2013 7:11:14 PM PDT by markomalley
Tough-talking Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio is warning civilians who embark on armed patrols in remote desert terrain that they could end up with "30 rounds fired into" them by one of his deputies.
His unapologetically terse comments came Tuesday after a member of an Arizona Minuteman border-watch movement was arrested over the weekend for pointing a rifle at a Maricopa County sheriff's deputy he apparently mistook for a drug smuggler.
"If they continue this there could be some dead militia out there," Arpaio said.
Richard Malley, 49, was heavily armed with two others dressed in camouflage Saturday night along Interstate 8 near Gila Bend, a known drug-trafficking corridor in the desert about 70 miles southwest of Phoenix, when he confronted the deputy who was on patrol conducting surveillance, authorities said.
According to court records, the deputy and his partner stopped their vehicle, then flashed their headlights and honked their horn, a common practice used by law enforcement to trick drug smugglers into thinking the car is there to transfer their narcotics load and lure them out of hiding.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Makes sense, I’m afraid. You can’t have two groups patrolling the border without risking one of them shooting the other.
I wonder if it would be possible if these militia guys volunteered to be deputized by Arpaio, so they could work together, instead? That’s how it was handled in the old days when there was a serious threat to be confronted.
It’s their thing and they don’t like outsiders trying to muscle in.
Obviously, the MCSO and the Minutemen need some better coordination to avoid incidents in the future. It could be as simple as the two agreeing on one-day challenges and passwords.
That is, when one group meets another they yell out their challenge word, and the other group has to yell their password if they have one. If they don’t, all bets are off.
And the words are issued out once a day to both groups, so after a 24 hour period they are invalid, and a new challenge and password are in effect.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
Here is a theory - how about armed private citizens patrolling THEIR OWN PROPERTY and not trying to be cops out in the middle of the desert?!!!!
I’m not a cop, but if I saw some armed guys in cammo beside the road at night, I’d have my own gun out in a heartbeat. And if one of those armed men pointed a gun at me, I’d be in fear of my life and might well shoot.
If I’m out in the desert hiking, and someone points a gun at me, what do you expect me to do? Ask them if they are militia?
The continuing trend of law enforcement organizations to try to separate themselves from "civilians" is a bad idea, since without the support and cooperation of the "civilians" their job is much more difficult - particularly when the voters cut their budgets.
Those feelings go both ways, which is why the LEOs need to coordinate with civilians, and make sure it is very clear that they are LEOs when they approach civilians - particularly if they too are holding weapons instead of just having a holstered side arm.
Brash statements from either side aren't smart. What is needed is cooperation, coordination, and very clear identification of LEOs.
EXACTLY! The LEO community has been militarizing and separating itself form “civilians” for the past 20 years. The police are not your friend! Nor is Sheriff Joe it seems.
That would require too much intelligence for most cops.
I see no reason for private citizens like myself to be making armed patrols of public property. I run, ride horses & hike on public land. If I see some guys with rifles who are not acting like hunters, my first thought would be “Drug dealers”. And if I have a gun with me, my instinct would be to use my gun to cover my retreat.
I also go out shooting in the desert. I’ve met armed guys planning to use the same general area for target practice. Again, the context - in daytime, in an area suitable for target shooting - makes a difference.
Last time I checked, YOU are a civilian, Joe.
I guess Sheriff Joe believes that The King's Men are ascendant...
It's nice to know there are Civilian militias watching our border. The paid professionals are being paid to NOT do anything, hence the NEED for citizen militias!
Civilian police are civilians.
And too much faith in most civilians.
Thanks for the warning, Sheriff Joe...You da man!
Last time I checked, YOU are a civilian, Joe.
I guess Sheriff Joe believes that The King’s Men are ascendant...
Sheriff Joe finally exposes himself as a liberal, eh? sarc/
That's what the prosecution said about Zimmerman. And maybe if the amount of crime was low enough no citizen would need to leave their house armed. And no citizen would feel the need to try to prevent crime in their area. But apparently that is not the situation in Arizona.
Law enforcement officers encounter armed civilians patrolling in lots of circumstances, including in office buildings, shopping centers, and at banks. Around power plants they also encounter armed security teams, and at some installations those teams look more like a Seal Team than a group of mall cops.
Coordination and cooperation should be the goal, not the kind of threats the Sheriff was making. The militia members need to cooperate with the LEOs too, since they presumably have the same goal. But the threats by Sheriff Arpaio evidence an attitude which is counterproductive. Would he want citizens to have the same attitude towards his men if they were on private property? I would certainly hope not.
Sheriff Joe Arpaio is the real deal. He is a true patriot who is standing up to Obama on border enforcement. He has also made more progress than anyone on addressing Obama’s fraudulent occupation of the white house. Perhaps this is the news media’s way of broadcasting a vulnerability. The liberals want this man dead.
and he probably can’t associate with the Militia because you don’t know what might happen.
They might want to volunteer as Deputies instead. I dunnno.
One Challenge word should not be: Draw.
Free Country and your guy was the one acting suspicious.
Both the Deputy and the man were in the right and it might behoove you to work with them rather than threaten.
Your dude wasn’t getting off the 1st shot and was at a disadvantage with a light illuminating him. He also may have been outnumbered.
Slap the guy’s wrist, tell him off and give him a wink.
Just how I see it.
You are a good man and so are your men but, you are outnumbered by border brothers and you could enlist the help of those willing to work within your AO and RoE.
Let’s put this in perspective. Here is a map of the counties of Arizona. The red blob is the Tohono O’odham Indian Reservation, an enormous corridor for illegal aliens and drugs on both sides of the border. Large parts of it are almost empty. About 10,000 permanent residents.
Including adjacent desert area, it is about the size of Delaware. For illegal aliens whose destination is Phoenix, in Maricopa County, and drug smugglers who transport through Pinal County, it is about 180 miles from the border.
Phoenix Metropolitan Area is 16,573 square miles.
Sheriff Joe Arpaio has a lot of deputies. He also has a reserve, and more than a dozen specialized posses for things like lake diving and mounted and mountain rescue, rotary and fixed wing aircraft, etc.
But there is no way they can hope to patrol enough desert to matter.
Pinal County, with the drug trafficking, is likely more dangerous. Its Sheriff has issued his deputies surplus M-16 rifles.
So what impact can the Minutemen have? Actually a goodly amount. They not only report hundreds of illegal aliens, but contact LEOs about drug smuggling. And they also save a lot of lives, because that is a very harsh desert and about 300 illegals die out there every year.
As often as not they do operate on private ranch lands, but they need to function throughout the range.
crayons or pencil...
We used to get some reports here on the Campo [CA] Minutemen. I’m not sure, but there may have been some coordination between that group and the US Border Patrol.
Campo Minutemen Repair Fence Near Rosas Memorial
Report from The Campo, CA Border (pics)
Somebody once asked Chuck Norris if he ever wanted to be president.
His answer: “Yes! President of Texas!”
interesting. very interesting.
When it comes to Sheriff Joe and his posse, I’m done. They got it covered.
It could be as simple as the two agreeing on one-day challenges and passwords
I’ll be blunt about it. Based on my appearance and usual clothing, I wouldn’t trust some of these militia types not to shoot me.
From the article: “U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman Andy Adame also expressed concern for the safety of both the militia members and Border Patrol agents.”
They have grave concern for the drug runners, too. They’re concerned they’re going to get caught by militia that the local cops and Border Patrol can’t do.
It doesn’t take them long to show their true colors, does it? They’re not on the side of the people. They’re being trained to fight the people with military grade equipment. They have drones. We’ll perches in tops of trees. They’ll RPGs. We’ll have shotguns......you’d think I was talking about the army. But I’m talking about the local cops.
Sounds like Sheriff Joe has been shown his NSA file.
Yes. The number of innocent people being gunned down by militia types is really sky-rocketing. Why just the other day, ... Wait a minute. Has anybody been gunned down by militia types?
I am aware of many innocent people who have been gunned down by law enforcement. Perhaps we are discussing something that isn't really much of a problem.
So the law enforcement guys admit that they intentionally gave the appearance of NOT being law enforcement. And then they arrested a man for believing that they weren't law enforcement, which had been their exact intention.
Am I missing something here? Does the government really think they can get a conviction in this case for anything?
While it would be good to coordinate efforts enough to keep the units from tangling, to let out the information on where the Sheriff's units were going to be active might pave other corridors for drug runners. People would have to be able to maintain OPSEC, and in my estimation, that won't happen if enough people are aware of who is where.
It's a setup and betrayal - Sheriff Joe has thrown in with the drug runners and illegals. He's having his troops dress and act like the enemy in order to provoke the civilian militia into responding, and then reveal that they are cops and arrest the militia.
Sabotage. Betrayal of law abiding Americans. It's a sting operation to help the illegals, because now the militia doesn't know if the illegals are cops setting them up.
What are the militia doing that is illegal?
Now we learn that many of the questions from this article were right on the money:
The deputies were in an unmarked car, they were wearing camouflauge instead of regular uniforms, did not have badges on, and were playacting as drug dealers.
All charges against Mr. Malley should be dropped immediately.
I'll buy that when they quit gearing up and acting like they're seal team 6 and when they quit treating the rest of us civilians like it's occupied iraq.
there is a lot of money in crime...for both sides..!
As long as law enforcement (Read: local, state, and federal) do not have the capabilities, enthusiasm, or funding to search and destroy these cartels and the mules, militias will stand up and do the job. This is human nature. It is called defending oneself, their families, and their communities. I think Sheriff Joe is making the wrong move here.
I doubt I’d trust you either. Push and push back is forcing sharper divisions all the time. Not that I’m at all trustful of the police after some shootings in Tucson a couple of years ago.
Lets face it, hatred is ruling the day. I’d just as soon not have someone who hates me, or what he thinks I am, pointing a gun at me.
“That’s what the prosecution said about Zimmerman.”
The owners of the property approved of Zimmerman’s Neighborhood Watch. And concealed carry is legal. Zimmerman was in a NEIGHBORHOOD. He wasn’t patrolling an Interstate, or going out on state of federal land. He was ALSO in contact with the police...
I live in southern Arizona. I know the geography. I’ve driven that section of road many times. It does NOT need armed civilians of unknown training, without coordination with the cops, patrolling it with rifles.
If I ran around on public streets, armed and telling people I was their self-appointed protector, and I didn’t cooperate with law enforcement, just who in the hell do you think I would be helping? That is a shooting waiting to happen.
If I saw these guys, I’d assume they were drug smugglers. I wouldn’t talk to them, show them my ID, or do squat to cooperate with them. MY gun would be out, and I’d be ready to use it to defend myself.
Then these buttheads had the gall to refuse to cooperate with cops in uniform, with badges. They deserve time in jail!
The bottom line to all of this is the refusal of the federal government to control the border. Instead, their alternative is to try to put vast stretches of US territory effectively off limits to US citizens.
Now, while the Democrats who control southern Arizona might be fine with that, those who live in *central* Arizona, which includes Maricopa and Pinal counties, are not happy at all with the idea that unless land is developed, the government owns it, and it is forbidden to the public.
In *years* of operation, this is the first real citizen-police conflict I’ve heard of, and was based on some pretty extraordinary circumstances.
The Minuteman was clearly in the wrong only in trying to confront people he thought were drug smugglers. However, a shoulder patch, especially at night, especially if it is a subdued patch, is laughable as a form of ID at any distance.
Add to that the deputies were trying to lure drug smugglers, so they would not be making themselves known as deputies until the smugglers were close enough to catch. But instead of luring prey, they lured another predator.
The bottom line is that they should let this guy go with a slap on the wrist, telling him first not to ever, ever, draw down on a cop, or someone who might be a cop; and if he sees somebody he thinks is a criminal, call LEOs, don’t try to apprehend somebody who might very well be able and willing to fight back with better weapons.
Well...I largely agree with your points.
As an aside, I have a rather silly anecdote on the subject which illustrates how bizarre it can all get.
In the 1980s, the Verde River valley just northeast of Scottsdale was pretty much undeveloped, and a popular spot for the ASU ROTC to practice their maneuvers. However, they were far from alone. In addition to thousands of rattlesnakes, it was a popular playground for white and Mexican dumbasses with guns to go shooting in random directions. And there was a lot of patrols by both forest rangers and MCSO deputies, looking for drugs, liquor, guns, explosives, girls in bikinis, dumbasses with guns, river tubers, you name it.
In any event, a group of Army ROTC were out there practicing US Army Ranger tactics, under the watchful gaze of their Special Forces adviser, who was in a foul mood with a hangover and random gunfire making him seek cover once too often.
A pitch black evening, and the maneuver had been going well, when an MCSO helicopter showed up, throwing a spotlight on one of the groups, which illuminated their position and fouled up a big part of the exercise. And this was the final straw for the Green Beret, who pulled out a star cluster aerial flare and fired it a football field away from the helicopter, which was several football fields away too close as far as the helicopter pilot was concerned, so he turned off all his lights and split in a hurry.
Only after that did the Green Beret pause for station identification, and give orders that everyone was to immediately exfiltrate across the shallow river and conceal themselves. A wise move, because the helicopter pilot had called in backup from every MCSO within 50 miles, who were soon crawling all over the other side of the river, much like when the government was chasing E.T., and to the same result.
At least they chased off all the other white and Mexican drunken dumbasses shooting their guns in random directions for the evening. After drying off, the rest of the exercise went off without a hitch.
(I will add as an aside that the Verde River is the one North-South corridor for helicopter traffic out of Phoenix Metro, and it gave me great amusement while watching the movie Blue Thunder, of the villain supposedly throwing a captured North Vietnamese soldier out of his helicopter onto the saguaros below.)