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Would the Founders Have Cared Where Ted Cruz Was Born?
The Atlantic ^ | Garrett Epps

Posted on 08/28/2013 8:45:24 AM PDT by Nero Germanicus

From beginning to end, the debate over Senator Ted Cruz and his birth certificate has been silly. Like the "birtherism" debate surrounding Barack Obama, it shows that many Americans think our Constitution is a Harry Potter book of spells ("Mandamus! Habeas Corpus! Nullus indviduus mandatus!"). The "natural born" citizen clause in particular appeals to the mythological imagination.

The clause is found in Article II § 1 cl. 5, which contains three and only three requirements for a potential president: He or she must be 35 years old, must have lived in the U.S. for 14 years, and must be "a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution."

What was the reason behind this third requirement? Many people are convinced that the "purpose" of the Clause was to bar Alexander Hamilton (born in Nevis in the Caribbean) from the presidency. But the provision above says in so many words that anyone who is a citizen "at the time of the adoption of this Constitution" can be president. Hamilton had become a citizen of New York by act of the legislature in 1782. He didn't become president largely on account of the whole being-shot-to-death-by-Burr thing.

In fact, in 1787, no one over 11 -- not George Washington, not John Adams, not Thomas Jefferson -- was a "natural born citizen" of something called "the United States of America." The first "natural born citizen" to enter the White House, by my count, was Martin Van Buren in 1836 -- who was born in 1782, five years before Philadelphia.

I don't think that the Framers were even thinking about potential presidents born to American parents abroad. Their concern was naturalized citizens, and it was a lot more immediate and urgent.

(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; canada; certifigate; coldcaseposse; congress; constitution; cruz; democrats; education; electionfraud; eligibility; fraud; mediabias; mikezullo; naturalborncitizen; obama; sheriffarpaio; teaparty; tedcruz
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1 posted on 08/28/2013 8:45:24 AM PDT by Nero Germanicus
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To: Nero Germanicus
on account of the whole being-shot-to-death-by-Burr thing.

For the record, I approve of politicians doing this to each other.

/johnny

2 posted on 08/28/2013 8:47:19 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Nero Germanicus

Sure . . . Article II, section 1, clause 4 doesn’t exist in the Constitution.


3 posted on 08/28/2013 8:47:48 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai; Nero Germanicus

Or is that Clause 5? Funny how some versions group words differently . . .


4 posted on 08/28/2013 8:48:57 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Nero Germanicus
The Framers' concern was that a future President my owe his allegiance to either the King of Britain (George III) or the King Of France (Louis XVI).

I'm pretty sure that if Ted Cruz were ever elected President then he would not become a puppet of the Canadian government.

This whole debate is stupid, because the original intent was to ensure loyalty to America and not a foreign sovereign.

5 posted on 08/28/2013 8:49:19 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Nero Germanicus
Perhaps not, but this issue to getting so watered down that soon a guy born in Mexico to Mexican Parents are going to be able to be President. We are on a slippery slope that won't stop. I guarantee it. Obama started it, Cruz is continuing it and soon a Mexican will be claiming that the Constitution says “America” it might mean “North America”. You think I am kidding.....get a conservative or liberal Mexican who speaks well and says the necessary key words in their first senate term and people will be salivating over it.
6 posted on 08/28/2013 8:49:41 AM PDT by napscoordinator ( Santorum-Bachmann 2016 for the future of the Country!)
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To: Nero Germanicus

Is this author serious? He sounds like an idiot. The “citizen...at the time of the adoption” clause was because it was impossible to find natural-born citizens of a country which didn’t yet exist.


7 posted on 08/28/2013 8:50:10 AM PDT by dinodino
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To: Nero Germanicus

yes, they did care


8 posted on 08/28/2013 8:50:58 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Nero Germanicus

“I don’t think that the Framers were even thinking about potential presidents born to American parents abroad Their concern was naturalized citizens, and it was a lot more immediate and urgent.”

STOP RIGHT HERE! This idiot “THINKS” he knows what the framers intended, and then goes on to prove that he doesn’t.

No need to read further.


9 posted on 08/28/2013 8:51:02 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Except Hamilton was an honorable man, as were most of the Founders.

Burr was no such thing. He was an opportunist interested only in his own advancement. The other Founders greatly distrusted him, as they should have.

IOW, Burr was a politician of the type we’ve become so used to.


10 posted on 08/28/2013 8:55:02 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Nero Germanicus
The "natural born" citizen clause in particular appeals to the mythological imagination.

Ahhh! Another freshing dose of distilled stupidity from the Atlantic!

I have a hunch that site and Salon are where people go after they can't even make it on television.

11 posted on 08/28/2013 8:55:15 AM PDT by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: Nero Germanicus
Many people are convinced that the "purpose" of the Clause was to bar Alexander Hamilton

Ah yes, the "many people" opening often used by liberals to introduce their personal cockeyed opinions.

12 posted on 08/28/2013 8:55:39 AM PDT by oldbrowser (We have a rogue government in Washington)
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To: Nero Germanicus

Yes, the founders were concerned with DUAL and DIVIDED loyalties.

They want the President to be DEVOTED to the United States and NOT to any other country.

I think that was the SPIRIT of their concern.

Having said that, let’s get real...

Being born a natural-born citizen does not guarantee that you will love America when you grow up ( See for instance, The American Taliban, John Walker Lindh ).

Being born a foreigner on the other hand does tell us where a person’s heart will lie when he becomes a naturalized American. I know of several foreign born soldiers who have fought bravely for this country.


13 posted on 08/28/2013 8:55:55 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Nero Germanicus

14 posted on 08/28/2013 8:57:32 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: Timber Rattler
We're going to have several threads a day on this subject and the man hasn't even said he's running.

These people are flat out nuts. I think they should form a chapter of "Conservatives to take out Ted Cruz" and get a grant from Soros......

15 posted on 08/28/2013 8:57:47 AM PDT by Lakeshark (KILL THE BILL! CALL. FAX. WRITE.)
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To: Nero Germanicus
The Founders wouldn't care where Cruz was born unless he ran for president.
On this they were specific in writing in the Constitution.
See what happens when a president is elected who can't reveal his birth credentials?
Brilliant indeed were the Founders.
16 posted on 08/28/2013 8:59:14 AM PDT by Amagi (God Save the Republic.)
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To: Timber Rattler

“I’m pretty sure that if Ted Cruz were ever elected President then he would not become a puppet of the Canadian government.”

I’m pretty sure that if Barack Obama were ever elected President then he would not become a puppet of the Kenyan government or the socialists, or the Muslim nations, or the Muslim Brotherhood, or want to arm Al Qaeda-linked groups, or treat our best allies (Great Britain) with contempt, or ignore any other part of the Constitution that he feels like ignoring, etc. etc.

AND it doesn’t matter if you are pretty sure about something we have laws and the Constitution is the SUPREME law of the land, you can’t just dismiss it.


17 posted on 08/28/2013 8:59:24 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: oldbrowser

“Many people”

The same people say that Bam might not be so anxious to blow up the Syrians if he weren’t in the pocket of the Sunni Wahhabis.
So yeah, if they hadn’t meant it, it wouldn’t be in there.


18 posted on 08/28/2013 9:01:36 AM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: Nero Germanicus

Ted Cruz seems to be a good guy, but he has zero qualifications to be President.

And as for “natural born,” it’s hardly surprising that the Communist Atlantic wants to twist things.

Cruz is doing a good job right where he is, so far. Let’s encourage him to keep on doing it. We don’t gain anything by bending the Constitution just because the Democrats do it. First you bend it a little, then a little more, then you throw it in the garbage. That’s what the Atlantic wants us to do, for obvious reasons.


19 posted on 08/28/2013 9:03:07 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: SeekAndFind

“I know of several foreign born soldiers who have fought bravely for this country.”

Please point me to which clause in article II says that “foreign born soldiers who have fought bravely for this country” are eligible to be president.


20 posted on 08/28/2013 9:03:17 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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