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To: kabar
You are the one claiming these are the "adults" who are fighting the battles that "can and will be won."

Right now that's messaging and the budget. There are no other battles that can be won at this time. Maybe after the 2014 midterms, but most definitely not now.

I consider the GOP establishment as part of the enemy. The first thing that needs to be done is to take over the GOP or failing that, form a third party.

Reality again: GOPe holds a lot of power in the party and a third party will take years and many election cycles to develop.

There is plenty of anger and frustration out here.

Yes, there is, but it's all disparate and scattershot. A unified message can bring focus to it. Right now we don't have that, and failed impeachment hearings/votes will simply distract.

If we continue to fail to point out that the emperor has no clothes, we are the ones contributing to the fantasy.

That's messaging.

An impeachment proceeding will help educate the public on what Obama's crimes and misdemeanors are.

What crimes and misdemeanors? We have no real evidence right now. We have logical arguments, but nothing hard. Look what Congress needed to impeach Clinton. Do we have anything like that with Obama?

You keep saying the GOP is totally doomed as-is, yet we're supposed to launch straight for nuclear war against the Dems and the media immediately, regardless of repercussions. I fail to see how that benefits the country or the conservative movement.

64 posted on 09/01/2013 5:04:26 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Future Snake Eater
Right now that's messaging and the budget. There are no other battles that can be won at this time. Maybe after the 2014 midterms, but most definitely not now.

What budget battle are you referring to? Be more specific. So you stand against any effort to defund Obamacare? And what is the message?

Reality again: GOPe holds a lot of power in the party and a third party will take years and many election cycles to develop.

Sounds similar to the Left's arguments about oil from ANWAR. It will take more than 7 years to get the oil flowing and the amount is insignificant compared to our total usage. It is time to send the GOPe a message. We don't want to go down with the ship with them. Far better now to start planning for an alternative to the current version of the Whig Party.

Yes, there is, but it's all disparate and scattershot. A unified message can bring focus to it. Right now we don't have that, and failed impeachment hearings/votes will simply distract.

Disagree. An impeachment effort will unify the opposition and focus our message. The GOPe wants to remake and rebrand the GOP. It is divisive and will lead to lower turnout in 2014. The GOP is failing to energize and motivate its base. I predict a disaster in VA this year and a possible loss of the House in 2014.

What crimes and misdemeanors? We have no real evidence right now. We have logical arguments, but nothing hard. Look what Congress needed to impeach Clinton. Do we have anything like that with Obama?

OMG. No wonder the GOP has a problem. You can't be serious. Let's just take something that I know a great deal about, i.e., immigration. I lobby on the Hill and in Richmond on this issue and have been engaged for over seven years on trying to influence policy and legislation.

Obama has enacted his own version of the Dream Act circumventing the law and Congress. He has already legalized the status of over 400,000 Dreamers including issuing them work permits and SSNs. It is a clear violation of the law.

I know and have worked with the brilliant Kris Kobach on immigration issues. He clearly states that Obama is breaking the law. The "Dream" Order isn't legal

Here is a short video featuring Kris Kobach on the issue of Obama's breaking for federal law with his Dreamer amnesty

Backdoor Amnesty – Abusing the Constitution and Presidential Authority

There are many other issues as well. Does Obama have the authority to delay the employer mandate under Obamacare? Does OPM at the behest of Obama have the authority to allow the federal government to subsidize healthcare costs (70% of the total premium costs under the exchanges) of Congressional employees who were placed under Obamacare?

93 posted on 09/02/2013 7:39:43 AM PDT by kabar
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