Friction Over Wolf Reintroduction Spills Into Colorado ( and NM )

We don’t need wolves in the lower 48 nor are they needed for the ecosystem, did just fine without them for many years.

History would take exception with your statement. The mass deer starvations on the Kaibab Plateau in the early part of the 20th century along with the deer overpopulation problems at Yellowstone earlier than that were in part due to overcontrol of deer predators such as wolves, mountain lions and the like.

"Playing God in Yellowstone" by Alston Chase goes into a very detailed review of how the deer population was impacted by well-meaning folks who depending on the era made poor predator control decisions that resulted in deer populations rapidly expanding, irrupting and then rapidly declining.

You pick two examples and I specifically said wolves, not cougars, bears or coyotes, the Kaibab Plateau is not an argument for the preservation or introduction of wolves now.

National parks such as Yellowstone are a poor example arguing for the introduction and need for wolves. With Game Depts that manage deer and other game populations through legal hunting outside national parks, especially in the Western states its been shown wolves are not needed. They’re destructive of game animals that are legally hunted and destructive of livestock, not to mention the threat to humans if their numbers get too high.

For Kaibab, wolves were a major predator and one that were substantially reduced through hunting, etc. The results of that action is well documented.

My reply was concerning your statement that wolves are not needed for the ecosystem and that the ecosystem did fine without them for many years. I don’t believe the historical record supports those claims.

The larger point is that there is an ample record of changes to ecosystems without better understanding the possible outcomes, or changes being made to ecosystems based on bad science.

The historical record reflects the intents of those in charge, which was in Yellowstone was an incompetent Park Service that cared more for pleasing tourists than caring for habitat (which continues today, considering the state of the range and forests there).

There is not a single function in the "ecosystem" that hunters cannot do better than wolves, as the Indians proved when they ran it. Lewis and Clark did not encounter a single wolf in the Yellowstone region because humans were the apex predator.

My original comments were in regards to the poster’s assesrtion that wolves are not needed in the lower 48 states and that the “ecosystem” did just fine without them for years. That’s a pretty broad statement.

Hunting is just one tool in the toolbox for management of natural resources. It is not a panacea, any more than releasing wolves into certain regions based on incomplete and in some cases faulty science.

Wolves don't stay in their "certain regions," as we've seen. They make a lousy tool because they are very hard to control. OTOH, name one place people won't hunt.

For Kaibab, wolves were a major predator and one that were substantially reduced through hunting,

Really? According to this documentation 20 wolves were killed. It also says that the area was closed to hunting due to an experimental program.

excerpt:

At the beginning of the 20th century, the Kaibab Plateau was witness to an interesting experiment in what some might call population engineering. The plateau's pre-1905 population of deer was estimated to be around 4,000. This number was never confirmed by any kind of count or survey, and has become an accepted number mainly because no other estimate is available. The average carrying capacity of the land was unknown, in part because this concept was not widely used by naturalists at the time. Years later, Aldo Leopold famously estimated that the capacity had been about 30,000 deer. The idea in 1906 was simply to protect and expand the herd, so on November 28, President Theodore Roosevelt created the Grand Canyon National Game Preserve. Overgrazing by herds of sheep, cattle, and horses had taken place on the plateau since the 1880s. During that time, many predators were also killed by ranchers and bounty hunters. By the time Roosevelt established the game preserve, ranchers had moved most domestic livestock elsewhere. The primary change brought by the creation of the game preserve was to ban deer hunting. Government efforts, led by the United States Forest Service, began to protect the deer's numbers by killing off their natural predators once again; to this end, between 1907 and 1939, 816 mountain lions, 20 wolves, 7388 coyotes and over 500 bobcats were reportedly killed.[2]

Kaibab deer

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