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777X offer puts Machinists, Boeing at ‘rock and a hard place’
the seattle Times ^ | December 15, 2013 | Dominic Gates

Posted on 12/15/2013 3:31:09 PM PST by Hojczyk

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To: Robe

Funny but I knew you’d post...

Why do you think I was referring to Charleston?


61 posted on 12/15/2013 9:26:36 PM PST by Regulator
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To: Wonder Warthog

You crack me up.

Do you really think free trade is why American shores are open to Asian goods?

And do you really think that the people who did it thought it would go on forever, regardless of the impact?

That’s hilarious if you did.

Here’s a hint. It didn’t happen because someone said we have to get access to all those wonderful cheap Chinese goods.

They didn’t exist.

It had almost nothing to do with trade economics.

If you take that out of the equation, tell me, just why do you think the US built Communist China into the world’s second largest economy?

I’ll leave you to steam on that one.

As for protective tariffs, we have more then most countries on Earth. And other ways to change the equation.

But just for the moment Warty, let me ask you a question: you seem to have nothing but contempt for American products. So uh, why are you here?

Beijing beckons, right?

In your mind, do you see the Chinese as pure free traders, the greatest practitioners of Laissez Faire?

An egalitarian anarcho-capitalist paradise, waiting with open arms to employ you, to consume your wondrous output, to freely exchange with you in economic bliss and harmony?

That’s really funny Warty. You might wanna reconsider..especially if you’re a round eye.

Anyway, like I said, in the end the American electorate gets what it wants. May take a while, but it happens. It’s a feedback loop; has a slow time constant, but....mostly works.

As for your comical statement that we have “no choice!”, the silliness of that is beyond debate. No, the choices will be made for everyone else: the American electorate will get what it wants, and the others will do what is set out for them.

68 years after the end of the original debate, it’s really far too early for anyone to succeed at changing that.


62 posted on 12/15/2013 9:53:59 PM PST by Regulator
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To: MasterGunner01

You forgot the part where mr. Worthless Tuff Guy Stonecipher destroyed what was left of Douglas and gutted Hughes Space by trying to make it a 50’s machine shop (something he could relate to) instead of the engineering powerhouse it had been. And is only just now recovering from.

The ultimate blowhard loudmouth. Imagine how much further along Boeing would be if it had never seen or heard of him.


63 posted on 12/15/2013 10:00:34 PM PST by Regulator
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To: Regulator
Yup, Harry Stonecipher was a real piece of work. When we got the Bob and Harry Show [Bob Smuland and Harry Stonecipher] from General Electric, they were brought aboard as a “fix” for some alleged problems of misbilling on DoD contracts. Harry was the big boss, and Bob Smuland was Harry's “enforcer” that lopped off heads.

After about five years at the helm, Harry got antsy. By then, he and Bob had some kind of falling out. When Harry got a promotion (took over the job of CEO at McDonnell-Douglas in St. Louis, MO), Bob was left behind — fired actually. Shortly after he was fired, Bob Smuland was diagnosed with terminal cancer and died within a year.

Harry screwed over a lot of companies and people on his climb of the corporate ladder. It was a Great Karma moment when his monster ego was blown-up by his philandering on his wife. In the end, Mrs. Stonecipher had the last laugh on her sleazy husband. God bless Mrs. Stonecipher and her divorce attorneys that shafted this pompous jackass where it hurt the most: his money, his toys, and his perks from Boeing. Sometimes when Karma strikes, it really sucks.

64 posted on 12/15/2013 10:45:36 PM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: Hojczyk

The International Association of Machinists went totally “red” when Whippy Wipisinger took over. He men are still around though getting long in the tooth.

Lots of reds infiltrated Boeing back in the 1940’s/early 50’s. Got cleaned out during the Cold War but they are back. Not really a “Party” group as much as a leftist marxist ideology group led by veteran radicals, and stupid at that.

Also, Boeing has other economic reasons for getting out of Washington State. Watch your newspapers in the next few months. If things go bad for them, expect them to close up shop and move south. Read your business sections of the paper, closely.


65 posted on 12/15/2013 11:55:04 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

It will be horrible for Washington state if Boeing leaves. But the communists took over this state so long ago, in the 40s - and notably the wobblies in Everett where Boeing is located.

The machinists union typifies the worst of our Marxist heritage, and really make it difficult for a company to survive.

We already ruined our logging industry for the spotted owl, yet we have windmills all over eastern Washington now, which are apparently allowed to keep chopping up birds every day.

And we have vast hydroelectric capacity, which has not been deemed to be green, thus the bird puree machines.

Beautiful state, filled with every stripe of leftist fools.


66 posted on 12/16/2013 1:00:43 AM PST by angry elephant (Endangered species in Seattle)
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To: Regulator
Nice long rant, 99% of which has nothing to do with what I actually said, and consisting totally of strawmen you're trying to set up. Are you a union organizer (the guy who lived next door to me was one of those).

I said zero about "free trade" one way or another. Nor anything about "building up Communist China". Nor anything about "having contempt for American products" (kind of hard to do, since I produce and sell high-tech instruments, some into China).

I'm simply pointing out the current economic realities and asking for specifics about how you plan to get around them. Which you have failed to provide. How about simply answering the questions I asked instead of a barfing up deluge of generic nutcase blather?

67 posted on 12/16/2013 5:09:32 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: jimpick

Less management “help” available on second shift.


68 posted on 12/16/2013 5:26:04 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: diogenes ghost
Fishy it is not. First shift complained when people were moved around the line to be more efficient. The supervisor and union steward allowed it to happen on second shift and that is why the increase in productivity.

The amount saved in labor was posted in a effort to be more productive by allowing competition. Soon after this they stopped posting labor savings. I might add that the $120,000 was saved above the posted production that was scheduled not above what first shift produced.

69 posted on 12/16/2013 6:41:20 AM PST by jimpick
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To: jimpick
"Fishy it is not."

Really?

EVERYBODY had at least 15 or less than three years?

NOBODY from 4 years to 14 years?

That is not a normal workforce, any way you cut it.

70 posted on 12/16/2013 1:56:39 PM PST by diogenes ghost
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To: diogenes ghost
There was one guy on first with 10 years. The line was not a line that people wanted to be on so we received all the people with low seniority. First shift started at 15 years unless you were appointed or signed a posting. So 15 years or more of seniority to be on first shift for nearly everyone.

Not so fishy if you ever worked in a union shop. Seniority rules and makes for messed up distributions of people. I ran the line with 3 years seniority just so I had as set start time. Otherwise I had to float around.

You sound like someone who has not worked a rabid union shop were the only thing that matters is time on job and not job performance.

71 posted on 12/16/2013 3:19:56 PM PST by jimpick
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To: diogenes ghost

Another thing you don’t understand is that for about 7 years nearly all the new hires were let go when work slowed down and not rehired. Thank the union for that as the contract made this possible.


72 posted on 12/16/2013 6:24:40 PM PST by jimpick
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To: Hojczyk

bkmk


73 posted on 12/16/2013 7:47:00 PM PST by AllAmericanGirl44 ('Hey citizen, what's in YOUR closet?')
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To: Gene Eric

Not sure I follow.

Boeing is hacking away at all levels and cutting back everywhere. If the senior leaders wished to be credible then they might also take a step or two to demonstrate they are not immune to the fiscal realities of the environment, a gesture can go a long way.


74 posted on 12/19/2013 7:59:15 AM PST by Hulka
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