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To: MasterGunner01

People are starting to rethink the 7.62 NATO ‘uncontrollable’ idea again, FYI. There are a number of videos on Youtube showing that some techniques can tame it.


223 posted on 12/24/2013 5:42:49 AM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

It is amusing to recall that one argument against the BAR was that its fire was too accurate! It was thought that greater dispersion (spread) would make it more effective.

Then, the slower velocity lower absolute recoil M-14A1 was reported to be ‘uncontrollable’.

To be fair, the BAR weighed 19 lbs.


233 posted on 12/24/2013 8:30:36 AM PST by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar will soon be relearned.)
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To: Spktyr
The question remains: why do you want a selective fire rifle (like the FN/FAL, M14, or G3A3) in 7.62 NATO to do automatic fire? Automatic fire is best delivered at shorter ranges with these rifles for greater effect. You are better off knocking bad guys off with aimed semi-auto fire than “spraying and praying” from rifles like this.

Case in point: the M14E2 or M14A1 is the selective fire M14 dressed for the automatic rifle role (suppressive fire). To do this, the M14 had its selector lock removed and replaced by a selector switch, a new stock with a pistol grip, hinged butt plate fitted, a folding front grip added, and a muzzle compensator slid over the flash suppressor. The setup was similar to the old M1918A2 BAR of WW2 and Korea, but slightly lighter. In trials against the belt fed M60 GPMG, the M14E2 or M14A1 could not compete for sustained fire or accuracy. And so these automatic rifles were reconfigured to standard M14’s with their selectors locked.

If you are going to suppress the enemy, then you need a good belt fed machine gun with quick change barrel capability. The M60/M240 or Mk 48 Mod 0/1 work well in this role. If you want any kind of control with a 7.62 NATO caliber rifle in full auto, that means a beast approaching 15 pounds or more. But, the draw backs are that its magazines of 20 or 30 rounds limit it (frequent changes) and it overheats. In 7.62 NATO caliber machine guns or rifles, there is no free lunch.

To be full auto controllable in 7.62 NATO = gun of about 18.5-27.5 pounds, belt fed, and with a quick change barrel. Automatic rifles that are merely infantry rifles in 7.62 NATO with a selector switch are not controllable or accurate in full auto.

269 posted on 12/26/2013 4:00:53 AM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: Spktyr
The question remains: why do you want a selective fire rifle (like the FN/FAL, M14, or G3A3) in 7.62 NATO to do automatic fire? Automatic fire is best delivered at shorter ranges with these rifles for greater effect. You are better off knocking bad guys off with aimed semi-auto fire than “spraying and praying” from rifles like this.

Case in point: the M14E2 or M14A1 is the selective fire M14 dressed for the automatic rifle role (suppressive fire). To do this, the M14 had its selector lock removed and replaced by a selector switch, a new stock with a pistol grip, hinged butt plate fitted, a folding front grip added, and a muzzle compensator slid over the flash suppressor. The setup was similar to the old M1918A2 BAR of WW2 and Korea, but slightly lighter. In trials against the belt fed M60 GPMG, the M14E2 or M14A1 could not compete for sustained fire or accuracy. And so these automatic rifles were reconfigured to standard M14’s with their selectors locked.

If you are going to suppress the enemy, then you need a good belt fed machine gun with quick change barrel capability. The M60/M240 or Mk 48 Mod 0/1 work well in this role. If you want any kind of control with a 7.62 NATO caliber rifle in full auto, that means a beast approaching 15 pounds or more. But, the draw backs are that its magazines of 20 or 30 rounds limit it (frequent changes) and it overheats. In 7.62 NATO caliber machine guns or rifles, there is no free lunch.

To be full auto controllable in 7.62 NATO = gun of about 18.5-27.5 pounds, belt fed, and with a quick change barrel. Automatic rifles that are merely infantry rifles in 7.62 NATO with a selector switch are not controllable or accurate in full auto.

270 posted on 12/26/2013 4:01:50 AM PST by MasterGunner01
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