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Hospital won't aid transfer of girl on ventilator
Yahoo News ^ | Dec. 31, 2013 | Lisa Leff & Terry Collins (AP)

Posted on 01/02/2014 1:08:18 PM PST by Anton.Rutter

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To: Tired of Taxes; faithhopecharity
This young girl should never have ended up in this position after undergoing a relatively routine surgery/tonsillectomy

Stop listening to the parents when they continue to call this a 'simple tonsillectomy.' That's being said for public sympathy while the family is using HIPAA to prevent the hospital from speaking publicly on the details.

This morbidly obese girl had sleep apnea.

She underwent uvulopalatopharyngoplasty, which is far more extensive and risky than a tonsillectomy.

For those who don't know what this surgery is, excess tissue is removed to help wide the airway. Included in this tissue is the uvula (thing that hangs down in the back of your throat), a large part of the soft palate, tonsils, adenoids & pharynx.

The bleeding issue is a known risk of the surgery and could have occurred without any negligence on the part of the surgeons, nurses, or hospital.

181 posted on 01/03/2014 11:13:18 AM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
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To: gas_dr

Like too many arrogant ‘doctors’ you presume to tell me what I may think. I have zero respect for you. You presume so much that you are incapable of rational perspective. I expect next you will order me to think of you as a scientist. When I refer to the gas passers, that is not referring to competent, diligent anesthesiologists. But your arrogance prevents you from realizing that. Not one of my twelve surgeries in life has been done without attendance by a competent anesthesiologist, usually overseeing a nurse anesthetist. I have been blessed to avoid the gas passers ...


182 posted on 01/03/2014 11:14:01 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Scoutmaster

Thank you for the info!
Yes, we heard thru the grapevine anyway that the surgery was more involved than just tonsils, but the mass media keeps referring to it that way...so anyway....what a tragedy!

If the more extensive surgery was necessary, then it had to be done even if risky. Sometimes we need these things, but the result was still tragic.

(What i find amusing, and this is a total aside and has nothing to do with this girl or the hospital...........is that uvulopalatopharyngoplasty leaves a person unable to speak, pronounce French. HA! I didn’t need an uvulopalatopharyngoplasty to almost flunk out of French class due to difficulty pronouncing it, ha! ha!)


183 posted on 01/03/2014 11:23:18 AM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: MHGinTN

Who peed in your bran flakes this morning? Try frosted flakes. The sugar might sweeten your nasty disposition.


184 posted on 01/03/2014 11:26:58 AM PST by NautiNurse (Obama sends U.S. Marines to pick up his dog & basketballs. Benghazi? Nope.)
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To: faithhopecharity
I don't have all of the details, but I don't think any surgery was necessary. Her sleep apnea could have been treated with a CPAP machine while the mother made sure the girl was placed on a healthy diet with plenty of exercise until she lost the excess weight.

The uvulopalatopharyngoplasty was a quick, but risky, fix.

I have no idea whether the physician(s) recommended it, but I feel certain there's a signed informed consent floating out there that mentions excessive bleeding and risk of death.

185 posted on 01/03/2014 11:30:22 AM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
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To: NautiNurse

Try to keep up ...


186 posted on 01/03/2014 11:32:03 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN

Perhaps if you were attended to by an anesthesiologist instead of a nurse overseen by an anesthesiologist you would have enough brain cells to see the fallacy of your statements commanding that I not presume to tell you what to think, yet presuming to paint such sweeping perspective as to my ability. I can back up my statements with nine years of post doctoral training and four board certifications including neurocritical care. So yes, I do know something about the brain and anesthesia at large. The fact is that arrogance is often presumed by the ignorant in the light of the truth. Finally, a man is judged not by his friends, but by his detractors. In this case that you have no respect for me, i am comforted, for if the willfully ignorant have no respect for me, then I must be doing something correct.


187 posted on 01/03/2014 11:38:13 AM PST by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America)
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To: Scoutmaster

gee, well if the surgery does turn out to have been unnecessary then the result is even more tragic...

what an awful thing to happen....

(I guess the only alternative is more big brother state-ism, but..... sometimes I wonder if we are doing the best we can to let any parent have surgery done on their kids... without some sort of review or ??? Again, I trust the govt far less than I do even the worst of parents.......so I do not have a better answer for this question........and don’t claim I do......................but the kids can sure end up the losers sometimes, can’t they?)


188 posted on 01/03/2014 11:39:07 AM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: gas_dr

Thatta boy, stay in character.


189 posted on 01/03/2014 11:42:29 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: gas_dr

One of the problems with the brain death/organ donation issue is the definition of brain dead that varies by location. If there were agreement among various countries and states in the criteria used I think there might be more acceptance. In some locations the committee that decides not he criteria to be used is also the committee that handles organ transplants. It’s a slippery slope from there.


190 posted on 01/03/2014 11:47:31 AM PST by ladyjane
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To: ladyjane

There is a very rigid definition of brain death. In fact whole brain death is probably the best in terms of organ procurement as a result that the patient is dead, but it is still possible to oxygenate the tissues for harvest and subsequent transplant. On the flip side, non-beating heart donation requires speed, and usually by the time the heart stops many of the most delicate tissues are destroyed. There is a very rigid wall of separation between declaring and procurement for this exact reason.


191 posted on 01/03/2014 12:05:04 PM PST by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America)
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To: Joan Kerrey
I agree with the hospital that they should not operate on a dead body.

Hospitals do it all the time when they pilfer organs from "brain dead" but living persons without anesthesia.

192 posted on 01/03/2014 2:55:19 PM PST by a fool in paradise ("Health care is too important to be left to the government.")
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To: ladyjane; gas_dr
definition of brain dead that varies by location.

On Friday, the Alameda County Coroner issued a death certificate stating that Jahi died on Dec. 12, three days after doctors at Children's performed a tonsillectomy that led to complications.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Hospital-agrees-to-let-Jahi-McMath-family-take-5111584.php?t=b88f840b5701b1089f#/0

She's DEAD in California. More info in article, including...Hospital agrees to let Jahi McMath family take girl

193 posted on 01/03/2014 3:52:49 PM PST by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: Scoutmaster; faithhopecharity
I didn't say she had a tonsillectomy in that post. I used the words "relatively routine surgery." Maybe I should've used the word "common" because UPPP is a common surgery today. In fact, here's how a surgical group in California describes it: Taken from this PDF file

Title:Tonsillectomy and Uvulopalatopharyngoplasty (UPPP)

This is a common surgical procedure done under general anesthesia. On the day of surgery, the anesthesiologist, operating room nurse, and doctor will see you at the pre-operation holding area. An I.V. will be placed. You are then taken to the operating room. Once under anesthesia a breathing tube is placed. The surgery is performed through the mouth and the breathing tube is removed before you are aware of it. The surgery takes about one hour. There are no outside incisions. There are dissolvable stitches in the back of the throat.

Yes, complications can occur following any surgery. The hospital staff is supposed to keep check on a patient and handle those complications. Like many other surgeries, UPPP has a mortality rate of less than one percent. Most of the patients with serious complications following UPPP do not die. So, we have to ask what happened in this case. If the child's weight was an issue, then the surgeon had the option to refuse to perform the surgery until she lost weight.

194 posted on 01/03/2014 3:57:48 PM PST by Tired of Taxes
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To: gas_dr

I was responding to your comment about the parents “milking” the situation. When I used the term “hospital staff,” I was referring mostly to the people (nurses, assistants, etc.) who care for a patient following surgery. Did the staff alert the surgeon or a doctor to the complications right away? Or did they brush off the mother’s concerns? There are serious questions to be asked in this case.


195 posted on 01/03/2014 4:18:55 PM PST by Tired of Taxes
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To: Tired of Taxes; faithhopecharity
You didn't use the word tonsillectomy; faithhopecharity did, which is why I added her to the "To:" line.

I misstated the risk of the operation, but 1% mortality is still 1%.

196 posted on 01/03/2014 4:20:37 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
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To: gas_dr

He or she is a flipping idiot.


197 posted on 01/03/2014 4:35:28 PM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: gas_dr
There is a very rigid definition of brain death.

It varies by location.

198 posted on 01/03/2014 4:40:49 PM PST by ladyjane
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To: gas_dr; MHGinTN

Doctor, your posts are not coming across as very Christian.

I’ve had to deal with many different doctors, surgeons, nurses, etc. Some (who are considered top-notch in their field) are down-to-earth, sympathetic, and will take on a whole hospital and other doctors to fight for their patients.

But, there are others who sneer at their patients and patients’ families. Your posts are coming across as sneers.


199 posted on 01/03/2014 6:52:01 PM PST by Tired of Taxes
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To: Scoutmaster

The rate of mortality is actually less than 1%, like many other surgeries.


200 posted on 01/03/2014 6:53:51 PM PST by Tired of Taxes
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