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To: gas_dr

By your argument, it’s hopeless and there’s nothing to be done. She’s going to die soon no matter what.

That means that she’s not suffering and in no discomfort. So there’s no harm in putting in a feeding tube, keeping her breathing, and some basic medical care? (Antibiotics, etc)

Oh, and her heart is beating on it’s own. That was a big part of the plaintiff’s court case. The only support she’s getting is a vent and fluids.

Please don’t forget that parents and families should have some say in these matters. In the end, they’re the ones that have to live with it. (Until very recently, this was considered a basic right.)

Let the parents be able to say, “Everything was done that could be done.” Then everyone can rest with the outcome.


86 posted on 01/03/2014 9:19:11 PM PST by Marie (When are they going to take back Obama's peace prize?)
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To: Marie
I read your very moving story on the other thread you published. First let me say that I am indeed happy for you for beating your odds. However, there are some basic differences between you and this poor child. You suffered anoxia and possible birth asphyxia from the sounds of it. But you breathed on your own, and while profoundly weak, you were extraordinarily well cared for, and in time with the advantage of a neonatal brain you recovered. Against the odds? Certainly! Unheard of -- no.

But in this case, this young sweet child is dead. It is not that she is going to die soon, she had met the legal and medical definition of death as defined by the standard of care by which physicians are compelled to practice. I must respectfully reject your statement that she is going to die soon no matter what -- in fact she died on the 12th of December. I will not go into the harm that giving antibiotics that are unwarranted can bring to an individual or the population (resistant bacteria, etc) But it is fair to say that her heart is beating only as a function of a ventilator. It is not beating on its own per se. Her heart could be removed from her chest in this state with the lungs and still beat with the ventilator and extracorporeal circulation. That does not change the fact she is dead.

What many do not realize is that to be declared brain dead, it is the WHOLE brain that must be examined, not just parts. Part of brain death criteria is something called an apnea test. All the chemistries of the body are balanced, and the body is warmed and oxygenated at 100%, and then the ventilator is held (mechanical ventilation mode). If there is no breath for 10 minutes or if the pH falls to a certain threshold, then the brain stem is destroyed and the whole brain is dead.

Can the brain stem be harmed without the rest of the brain? Certainly, but this leaves EEG with waveform. What is certain is that 5 physicians have independently confirmed the death of this sweet young girl. I agree that the parents should have a say and rights for the living child. But in this case, unlike all the other cases that have been cited, there is no brain activity and this has been confirmed over and over and over again.

In the final analysis, some argue that if the parents want to take this body home on a ventilator and continue to ventilate the corpse, is that their right? I am not sure, but if a court says this is ok, then I would think the parents should be responsible for this decision and it would be their physical as well as financial burden. In other words, if they choose to act against the proven opinions and standards of medical care, then they are on their own for it. Solicit private donations, or pay for it themselves. But I will point out as a matter of law, in my state, I would have no option short of a court order as it is illegal to assault a corpse, and that is in fact what is occurring. As a nuerointensivist, I see brain injuries that are not whole brian death. The majority do not make full recovery. Rarely there is a great story like yours, but this tragic story is nothing like yours, as you still had some obvious brain activity. . In this case, the child is unequivocally dead, and it is then the responsibility of the medical community to help her parents understand this.

Thank you for taking the time to consider what I have said.

87 posted on 01/03/2014 9:37:20 PM PST by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America)
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The question is why are the Doctors/hospital legally fighting the parents if the patient is brain dead/dead? Let the parents do what they wish. It won’t harm the hospital/doctors.


88 posted on 01/03/2014 9:38:48 PM PST by RginTN
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