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$12 an hour is conservative rocket fuel, says Ron Unz
The Daily Caller ^ | January 10, 2014 | Neil Munro, White House correspondent

Posted on 01/11/2014 6:37:08 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

A nationwide minimum wage of $12 per hour would shrink government, aid families, curb illegal immigration, spur high-tech investment, and boost GOP support among working-class voters, says Ron Unz, the California libertarian entrepreneur who wiped out his state’s Spanish-only K-12 classes.

The $12 wage would slash the huge taxpayer subsidies now given to companies that hire low-wage immigrants, and move tens of millions of Americans into the middle class and sharply reduce the 47 percent of the population who are now completely or partly dependent on federal handouts, Unz told The Daily Caller.

“Politics would be completely different… what you’re doing is reducing the 47 percent by 10 to 15 points and giving Republicans a chance to make their case about cutting government spending and reducing taxes,” he said.....

(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: california; economy; minimumwage; smallbusiness; unemployment
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1 posted on 01/11/2014 6:37:08 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Ok. Would $25 an hour do these good things twice as fast?

CC

2 posted on 01/11/2014 6:40:35 PM PST by Captain Compassion
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

You cannot gain prosperity by requiring people to pay employees more than they are worth to the company.

This is about as anti-liberterian a message as I have ever seen. It is a statist claiming to be a liberterian, or someone who is simply economically ignorant.

What would really happen is that those jobs that did not produce $12 an hour or more of value would be done away with, less value would be produced, and everyone would end up poorer.


3 posted on 01/11/2014 6:41:28 PM PST by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Question it’s basis in reality.


4 posted on 01/11/2014 6:41:30 PM PST by NonValueAdded (It's not the penalty, it's the lack of coverage on 1 Jan. Think about it.)
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To: NonValueAdded

Its, not it’s ... Sheesh, I know better.


5 posted on 01/11/2014 6:42:38 PM PST by NonValueAdded (It's not the penalty, it's the lack of coverage on 1 Jan. Think about it.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Just who calls Unz a “Libertarian?” He sounds like a social engineering aficionado.


6 posted on 01/11/2014 6:42:54 PM PST by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINEhttp://steshaw.org/economics-in-one-lesson/)
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To: Captain Compassion

And $50/hour four times as fast?


7 posted on 01/11/2014 6:42:58 PM PST by T. P. Pole
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

He may be right, I don’t know. I do know that there are taxpayer subsidies now given to companies that hire low-wage immigrants. You may get cheat produce, but you pay the difference in taxes.


8 posted on 01/11/2014 6:43:24 PM PST by babygene ( .)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What kind of Libertarian touts a minimum wage as a positive?


9 posted on 01/11/2014 6:43:50 PM PST by Kozak ("Send them back your fierce defiance! Stamp upon the cursed alliance! To arms, to arms in Dixie!)
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To: Captain Compassion

$25 dollars an hour would produce the same results more than twice as fast, because $25 is more than twice $12.

It would be even better to make the minimum wage $100 an hour. Then everyone could live an upper middle class life./S

You obviously understand the economics, but lurkers may not.


10 posted on 01/11/2014 6:43:59 PM PST by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is not conservative or libertarian. He is asking for a federal minimum wage of $12 an hour.

A lot of low-wage jobs would simply vanish for one thing.

A lot of lesser skilled workers would be replaced too.


11 posted on 01/11/2014 6:44:54 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Kozak

“What kind of Libertarian touts a minimum wage as a positive?”

Either a fake one or a very confused one.


12 posted on 01/11/2014 6:45:21 PM PST by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If they make it $500/hour, California will be a paradise!


13 posted on 01/11/2014 6:45:23 PM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Federal Government has no authority to order a minimum wage for anyone other than federal workers.


14 posted on 01/11/2014 6:45:30 PM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds)
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To: T. P. Pole

If you make it $100/hr. I’m all in, baby!


15 posted on 01/11/2014 6:45:33 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
and boost GOP support among working-class voters

No it wouldn't. They would hate the GOP when they asked for a $25 minimum wage and the answer was no.

Why do the GOP want to make the democrats (working class???) happy and not the conservative working class?

Perhaps the GOP would be happier being DNC?

This won't make The Chamber of Crony Capitalism happy.

16 posted on 01/11/2014 6:45:54 PM PST by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: T. P. Pole

Unz was 31 years old when he ran as the ‘conservative’ against the RINO Gov.-Pete Wilson. Slapped him down in a radio debate. Now look at what he’s become!


17 posted on 01/11/2014 6:46:57 PM PST by DIRTYSECRET (urope. Why do they put up with this.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Barack sh!t!


18 posted on 01/11/2014 6:46:59 PM PST by depressed in 06 (America conceived in liberty, dies in slavery.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Why not make the minimum wage $50 an hour?

Another idiot who doesn’t realize that the higher the minimum wage, the less competitive US business is.


19 posted on 01/11/2014 6:47:18 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The War on Drugs has been used as an excuse to steal your rights. Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Temporarily, it could work. There’s no doubt that the working class wage buys less today than it did 40 years ago.

The problem you would create is a driving up of inflation. Eventually the increase in minimum wage will be wiped out.

But there’s a benefit to that as well - wages will catch up and suddenly your fixed rate mortgage is taking less of your income.

The good news is that the market will correct itself over time anyways, so why not do it?


20 posted on 01/11/2014 6:47:40 PM PST by MeanGreen2008
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

he’s a theoretical physicist.....

with a bobby kennedy haircut


21 posted on 01/11/2014 6:48:12 PM PST by MeshugeMikey ( Help fight The Neo Stalinists! Donate to your Free Republic)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Asinine


22 posted on 01/11/2014 6:48:23 PM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" ~ Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: NonValueAdded
Its, not it’s ... Sheesh, I know better.

Maybe it's just something that's "going around", I've done it a few times myself recently. I know better too.

23 posted on 01/11/2014 6:49:12 PM PST by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Why not $1000/hour?

Then we could ALL be rich!

24 posted on 01/11/2014 6:50:12 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Who knew that one day professional wrestling would be less fake than professional journalism?)
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To: marktwain

The problem is due to unlimited immigration (legal and illegal), H1-B Visa’s and Outsourcing, there is essentially an unlimited supply of labor(cheap).

If we had a normal labor market the effective minimum wage would be much higher than $12/hr.

The cheap labor policies the US has adopted is causing massive problems for the majority of the citizens, all for the benefit of the few.


25 posted on 01/11/2014 6:51:08 PM PST by crusher2013
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To: MeanGreen2008
A higher minimum wage would simply empower the illegals and encourage more employers to hire them to keep their costs lower. Bad idea.

If I recall correctly, President Reagan never raised the federal minimum wage in his entire eight years.

26 posted on 01/11/2014 6:51:24 PM PST by LiveFree99
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To: Irenic

The GOP is under the mistaken idea that they can “take away” the Rats’ attacks by giving them what they want.


27 posted on 01/11/2014 6:52:34 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The War on Drugs has been used as an excuse to steal your rights. Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Face Palm Alert...


28 posted on 01/11/2014 6:52:52 PM PST by DoughtyOne (ZERO is still zero, and John Kerry is a mock-puppet!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If you define the value of a dollar as 1/12 hour of a minimum wage worker’s time, why wouldn’t other good adjust their dollar-denominated prices accordingly?


29 posted on 01/11/2014 6:54:25 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

When did libertarian become a synonym for economically illiterate.


30 posted on 01/11/2014 6:55:17 PM PST by hometoroost
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If he embraces the concept of miminum wage, he is a "libertarian" the same way a fortune cookie is "Chinese."

He is a statist in the libertarian party, I guess.

31 posted on 01/11/2014 7:00:43 PM PST by Finny (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. -- Psalm 119:105)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Upping the minimum wage will not increase employment. In fact it would decrease employment.


32 posted on 01/11/2014 7:01:22 PM PST by VRWC For Truth (Roberts has perverted the Constitution)
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To: marktwain

***$25 dollars an hour would produce the same results more than twice as fast, because $25 is more than twice $12***

- Yep, Sounds logical to me to. Like we say in construction: Why wait 9 months for a pregnant woman to give birth when we can have nine pregnant woman give birth in 1 month.


33 posted on 01/11/2014 7:01:28 PM PST by woodro43
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To: marktwain
I have seen splendid fast food workers who would be worth every penny of a $12 an hour wage. Trouble is that they either get promoted to management or get a better job fairly quickly.

They are the exception, not the rule. If everybody gets $12 an hour, that would necessarily have to include the stoner with the nose jewel who spends at least as much time chatting up his/her friends as waiting on customers.

34 posted on 01/11/2014 7:02:23 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...
A nationwide minimum wage of $12 per hour would shrink government, aid families, curb illegal immigration, spur high-tech investment, and boost GOP support among working-class voters, says Ron Unz, the California libertarian entrepreneur who wiped out his state’s Spanish-only K-12 classes. The $12 wage would slash the huge taxpayer subsidies now given to companies that hire low-wage immigrants, and move tens of millions of Americans into the middle class... “Politics would be completely different... what you’re doing is reducing the 47 percent by 10 to 15 points and giving Republicans a chance to make their case about cutting government spending and reducing taxes,”
"The 47 percent" again? A $12 federal minimum wage would cause federal income tax receipts to rise, assuming people could make enough at $12/hr with Obamacare premiums coming out of the take-home. What would probably happen instead would be a huge uptick in illegals taking the $12/hr jobs, with other jobs' wages going up and more employment -- overseas. Thanks 2ndDivisionVet.
35 posted on 01/11/2014 7:04:07 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

And, of course, it wouldn’t affect the cost of living at all. /s


36 posted on 01/11/2014 7:04:11 PM PST by joshua c (Please dont feed the liberals)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

So you have a retail supervisor making 12.05 an hour. What’s he gonna get when his subordinates, who were making 8.00, are now making .05 less than him?


37 posted on 01/11/2014 7:04:39 PM PST by DirtyPigpen (Semper Fi)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Yes, there we go, $100 - 8 times as fast


38 posted on 01/11/2014 7:05:19 PM PST by T. P. Pole
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To: Vigilanteman

Nose jewel - that cracked me up!

Disgusting things.


39 posted on 01/11/2014 7:11:06 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Isn’t there a word for that...extortion or something? It never stops.

If the government wants to help, they could start by undoing all the help they’ve given through the years.


40 posted on 01/11/2014 7:13:30 PM PST by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Minimum wage is full employment for illegals, who do as they please.


41 posted on 01/11/2014 7:16:37 PM PST by DaxtonBrown (http://www.futurnamics.com/reid.php)
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To: Still Thinking; All

“If you define the value of a dollar as 1/12 hour of a minimum wage worker’s time, why wouldn’t other good adjust their dollar-denominated prices accordingly?’

They probably would, but it would take time, and you end up with the same situation, only the numbers are different. Of course, the minimum wage doest not define the value of the dollar.

It would make more sense to *lower* the minimum wage to $5 per hour. Then the illegal immigrants would have to compete at lower than $5 per hour. Raising the minimum wage to $12 per hour, an illegal immigrant could charge $10 per hour, and still be competitive.


42 posted on 01/11/2014 7:20:36 PM PST by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No, we already have a problem with off-shoring. The stores are full of Chinese goods and 23% of our workforce is unemployed.

Raising the Minimum wage would hasten the off-shoring.

Instead, raise the import tariffs, so that it makes more sense to produce in America. That will increase jobs in America helping the unemployed. And once full employment is reached, then supply and demand will drive up the labor wage.

That would accomplish what he hopes to do with a $12 minimum wage, without losing more industries.


43 posted on 01/11/2014 7:24:56 PM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

So what happens to those with more skilled jobs that are currently getting $12 an already? Should they start getting 15 an hour then?


44 posted on 01/11/2014 7:28:16 PM PST by MNDude
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Under the current scheme of things, that would raise the prices of domestic products and services and the end result would be to raise gov't benefits in dollars for those not working to be able to afford 10 dollar burgers and further reduce the value of the paycheck of everyone else...

But hey, it's something...Let's do something different even if it's wrong...What we are doing now is just sucking us down the drain anyway...

The ONLY solution is to ship out and keep out all illegals and let the supply/demand principle of labor work to bring wages up...But that option is forever gone...That's only works in a sovereign nation...

45 posted on 01/11/2014 7:29:24 PM PST by Iscool
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To: MeanGreen2008
There’s no doubt that the working class wage buys less today than it did 40 years ago.

I'd rather be working class in 2014, than 1974. We're way better off.

46 posted on 01/11/2014 7:31:34 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Stockholm Syndrome. They’ve been the minority for so long, they crave it. Let’s win.


47 posted on 01/11/2014 7:32:20 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: marktwain
You cannot gain prosperity by requiring people to pay employees more than they are worth to the company.

Employees are not paid what they are worth to a company. That is often impossible to determine anyway. What's a busboy worth to a restaurant? You can't operate one without them. But the wage is a function of supply and demand, and that market is distorted by millions of immigrants, both illegal and legal. And that market is only going to be more distorted in favor of employers if the Chamber of Commerce gets their way on "comprehensive immigration reform".

48 posted on 01/11/2014 7:33:38 PM PST by Hugin
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To: crusher2013
If we had a normal labor market the effective minimum wage would be much higher than $12/hr.

Exactly. And since we can't expect any relief on the immigration front, we unfortunately need a minimum wage.

49 posted on 01/11/2014 7:35:55 PM PST by Hugin
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

slash the government hand outs and see what happens first. Then we can talk about adjusting the minimum wage..


50 posted on 01/11/2014 7:40:44 PM PST by cableguymn (It's time for a second political party.)
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