Posted on 01/21/2014 11:45:07 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
Or an ounce of lead would be worth than a ton of peas. Who knows.
Money allows you to do that. Barter only allows you to do that if you have a coincidence of wants. Without the use of money this is a very rare thing.
Never saw the need for gold. In the evnt the stated does happen a can of peas would be worth far more than an ounce of gold.
Ammo too.
This is an attempt to explain why Gold and Silver are well worth buying to prepare for societal collapse. I use the example of an imaginary chicken farm.
Why is Money valuable? Because it allows for the "concidence of wants" without which trade is impossible.
Imagine that the dollar has finally collapsed and that we live in a Mad Max dystopian nightmare.
In the center of this brave new world you run a chicken farm (appropriately defended by traps, barbed wire and kick-ass FReepers with sniper rifles).
This month you have costs - you need to hire a guy to mend the generator and a midwife to help with your daughter's pregnancy. How are you going to pay them?
They have what you want - but do you have what they want?
Unless you have some money there is no "coincidence of wants".
The generator guy and the midwife have no use for a hundred chickens! They need to replace their working materials (bearings, WD 40, medical supplies, etc) and upkeep their cars by trading with people who live eighty miles away.
But if you have money you can trade with them.
Carrying on with the example of a chicken farm - it's market day. You have a hundred customers who want to buy what you've got - but do they have what you want?
Fifty of them have wheelbarrows of devalued fiat currency and bad attitudes. You don't want their bundles of useless scrip.
Forty of them will offer some form of barter: alcohol, batteries, hunks of homemade cheese, their young, nubile bodies, etc.
You are faced with the time and expense of evaluating forty different barter offers, many of which you will have absolutely no use for.
And ten customers offer you money: Gold and Silver. These are your favorite customers: their real money fulfills the requirement for a coincidence of wants. You can take what they offer you, and use it to buy the services of the midwife, the engineer, etc.
In summary: trade relies on the coincidence of wants, which itself relies on money.
At the moment we can still use fiat currencies for trade, because fiat still (sort of) works like money. But we won't be doing that when we've passed into Zimbabwe mode.
Hope this was helpful.
The government has been cooking the books Enron style. We know their figures off vecause we’re out here in the field and it sure doesnt look like only 6.7 employment. I know more people laid off or had their hours cut than peoplewho are employed andearning awage that actually allws them to be self-ufficient and live on their own. More people have moved in together just to survive than any other time I’veever known during my lifetime. I also have talked to a significant number of people tgat have had to burn through their savings because of lack of work and the price ofeverything going up; just talked to another one yesterday.
Disagree with all those on the gold/money if there is an economic collapse which in turn causes a societal collapse. People survived for thousands of years without money, people live in remote areas all over today without money. I can hunt, I can fish, I can build a shelter, keep my vehicle running, generator running both of which are useless without fuel which will eventually run out or be very scarce.
Money is good in a civilized world but not in a society that has collapsed. You barter and you trade services hopefully with armed support because when “they” have received what they need they don’t need you anymore.
Market Day? Really where are you planning on surviving? In a societal collapse there are no rules, there are no laws. If you live in a city if you offer gold for services, you’ll be shot and they’ll take your gold. You bring a chicken in where people are hungry, they’ll take it. People will kill for and take what they want.
After the collapse, if you happen to live through it and some communities start to emerge that have the means to protect themselves then money of some sort may start to mean something.
I’ll take my guns, fishing rods, food and know how up in the mountains over money any day in that scenario. A 5th of Jack Daniel’s would be worth more to many vice an ounce of gold.
Lots of places in America you can do that too. Depending on what you’re looking for exurbia can be a very nice place to live.
Your whole reply was belligerent and confused.
So ... you admit that if you can protect yourself (and your property) then money is important?
I made it perfectly clear that the chicken farm is defended. Did you miss that part?
Ah well: perhaps spending a month queuing up to buy chicken-meat with some dingy bottles of Jack Daniels will cure you of your uncomprehending bellicosity. You’ll be at the back of the queue, Maddog.
belligerent and confused? Nah.. I have my shxt together and will survive just fine. We simply have different views.
Money is important in a civilized society and how much you have puts you in a certain class with other folks who have the same but it doesn’t matter in an uncivilized society where everyone is dependent upon their skills not their worth.
As for property it’s where you are at the moment in a collapsed society because you own nothing. If you create something good others will want it.
Protecting a Chicken farm is one thing but bringing them to a market in a collapsed society is suicide. I thought I made that clear. People will kill for food and that would happen in a matter of a few weeks once the stores are empty.
Sit on your gold and have fun with the chickens. In some societies I hear they have dual purpose.
I’ll take a deer steak any day with a good brook trout, potatoes or carrots and some ice cold spring water where ever I’m at.
Man alive! Where kin I git me one o’ them thangs! I kin raise maybe two grand if I sell everthang I got, izzat enuff?
The America that I grew up in was long gone before I ever heard of Saint Whozat of the untraceable origins. I knew it was over when I was in the big box store one day and noticed a young woman and paused to try to figure out what it was about her that I found so captivating. I suddenly realized that it was not her beauty, she was very nice looking but not a show stopper, what really struck me is that she looked like all young ladies used to look in public. Well dressed, well groomed with sensible, well coordinated clothes, NO TATTOOS, NO PIERCINGS, NONE OF THAT AWFUL STUFF THAT MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM WHEN I SEE IT. I would have stopped her and told her how great she looked but I figured she would think I was a dirty old man even though I had showered an hour earlier8>)
;-{)
The America that I grew up in was long gone before I ever heard of Saint Whozat of the untraceable origins. I knew it was over when I was in the big box store one day and noticed a young woman and paused to try to figure out what it was about her that I found so captivating. I suddenly realized that it was not her beauty, she was very nice looking but not a show stopper, what really struck me is that she looked like all young ladies used to look in public. Well dressed, well groomed with sensible, well coordinated clothes, NO TATTOOS, NO PIERCINGS, NONE OF THAT AWFUL STUFF THAT MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM WHEN I SEE IT. I would have stopped her and told her how great she looked but I figured she would think I was a dirty old man even though I had showered an hour earlier8>)
You are thinking in a civil manner when it comes to trade and gold. If we experience a real collapse soon, “precious metal” will become useless. I could get lots of gold for a simple bic lighter but that gold will be worthless to me so I will be trading for something else I can USE. I am certain you have read One Year In Hell; the author patently states “money” became worthless. No one is going to care about your gold but you. I think you are going to be very shocked when this goes down as their won’t be a “civilization” left to even consider what gold is worth at that point.
Why would I be bringing chickens to market? This is a wholesale operation. The market is where the chickens are.
But for those who are trying to sell stuff retail: we have examples from recent history (Bosnia for instance) where society collapsed.
People traded like wildfire. You could get anything: guns, pianos, wedding dresses. Markets (and the approaches to them) became heavily defended, and anyone who tried even the smallest theft was killed without recourse to law.
That's the thing. We imagine a lawless society - but we forget that a society where people must trade to survive will enforce laws-of-property with a trigger-pull and a shovel.
Hope this was helpful.
Outstanding job. Money’s been around for a long time for a reason. You nailed it.
We are headed for a societal collapse due to a collapse of fiat currency.
You could also imagine societal collapse due to a large-scale military seige (One Year in Hell), or tribal genocide (Rwanda), or meteor strike, plague etc.
But this will be the most enormous currency collapse in the history of the world.
It will be like Argentina, but world-wide AND (unlike Argentina) with Gold and Silver being recognized as the only true forms of money. For 6 billion people.
Sure - some people in inner cities will find themselves in scenes resembling a full-blown Zombie apocalypse.
But the general experience will be closer to Argentina. Lawlessness will rise, kidnapping will become endemic, no-one will go on unnecessary journeys - and Gold will be king.
Hope this was helpful.
You and I are on the same page...
Bic lighter is a good example. Cold day and I’m sitting by a nice fire eating some nice deer steaks. I have several Bic lighters and this guy comes up and offers to buy a lighter and offers gold because he needs one and it’s cold out. If he’d offered a couple cords of wood or offered to collect some for me he’d get a lighter... probably to use or I’d let hit take some fire coals home to start a fire. I’d look around and I’d see no need for coins or a rock.
Stop by and we’ll enjoy a deer steak and reminisce about this guy we knew that froze to death while trying to eat gold.
Before they wander off into the woods without a fire-making tool they might stop and think about the dangers of exposure: then come and buy one of the hundreds of lighters I have in my prep store.
And perhaps one of my wire-saws and some PJ tinder. And - under the "one is none" rule when it comes to fire-making, a Swedish fire-steel.
If he stops to reminisce, I might tell him about the guy who's happy to trade lighters for wood while he's sitting in a deer forest.
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