Approving Polygamy – Cross Swords

The Mesquite Citizen Journal ^ | February 6, 2014 | Terry Donnelly and Mike Young

[2ndDivisionVet]

For this week's Cross Swords column by Terry Donnelly and Mike Young, we asked this question: After gay marriage is legal, is polygamy next?”

Take a moment to participate in this week's poll in the left column that asks you to weigh in on this topic.

Mike Young’s Sword

The seemingly steamroller of approving gay marriage across our country begs the question - is polygamy next? It may seem a strange question, but it is a very valid question and needs to be asked in the light of the outward rise of gay marriages.

Back through history gay relationships have never been approved and in most of history the penalty for a gay relationship was death so we’re certainly breaking new ground here. The argument for legitimizing gay marriage is that it is a love relationship and who is to say a man can’t love another man or a woman another woman.

Yet somehow through time this has been forbidden. It’s just in the last generation or two that same sex relationships have become commonplace in the western world. We used to define marriage as two people of the opposite sex and now the definition is just two people.

But who defined it as two people anyway? It was in our Judeo-Christian principles that guided our country’s founding. But so was the definition of the oppose sex. However, now that those values are being discarded shouldn’t we reconsider the number, now that we have put aside the sex of the participants?

Polygamy has been around for a long, long time. We have it referenced too in the Bible and of course it is still practiced in some parts of the Islamic world. And there were some good reasons for it, the regeneration of the population after a war killing off most of the men and farmers needing more hands to work the land.

Those conditions don’t apply today but we still must ask why not a group of three or four? Certainty there have been two men in love with the same women and I’m sure two women with the same man. Through history they have had to choose, but why?

The men don’t necessarily have to love each other or the women the other women. This is getting more complicated as we progress through the possibilities. Here in America we have had a large number of people practice polygamy as a religious doctrine. In most places they were prosecuted for their beliefs but now that the Judeo-Christian principles are being swept aside and a live-and-let-live attitude seems to be prevailing. Should we not consider re-thinking our position?

Communes were somewhat along these ideas, share and share alike. Now not all men shared all women and visa-versa. But there were definitely some multiple relationships going on. Did society collapse over it? Of course not. But to a large extent the communes have passed in history and we might ask if the relationships did them in? I think not, but you never know unless you were there.

In any event, it only seems logical that the next big push to liberalize our society will be the push for multiple partners. Since we already have men and women changing partners frequently and now with same sex partnership it only seems like the next step. The only ones who would be against it would be the young boys who would be thrown out so all the old guys could have the young girls. Oh, isn’t that what is happening right now is some places?

Terry Donnelly’s Sword

For once our Cross Swords column is entirely progressive. The question is, “After gay marriage is legal, is polygamy next?”

That is taking a leap of faith that the 33 states that still ban gay marriage for one reason or another, will overcome that prejudice and will soon begin providing equal rights to yet another group who has to suffer bias because of someone else’s perception. Illinois just joined the ranks and Utah is trying, but is currently in limbo with a court stay until a state appeal can be heard.

We can even limit the discussion to Nevada. Sevick v. Sandoval, the case that will be adjudicated in November, challenges the constitutional amendment banning gay Nevadans from legally taking marriage vows. Let’s have some fun and pretend the court overrules the amendment and Nevada hops onto the right side of history and begins ringing wedding bells for anyone in the state.

Wait, there is yet another group who could step forward and demand their civil liberties. Those people who choose to marry more than one person at a time.

Polygamy is front and center on the minds of folks in this part of the country due to the Mormon hub of faith being so close at hand.

Mormons no longer condone polygamy as a mainstream practice, and it is illegal in all states. But, should it be?

First, we’ll need to set some ground rules. In my opinion, the reason polygamy is so polarizing isn’t because it is far out of the norm; it is because of how polygamists have created their tribe. There needs to be regulations attached, just like there are to any marriage. First, any multiple marriage would, by definition, have to be between people of majority age. The Mormon sects often arranged marriages for children to older men. Making children marry is not a civil right.

Another perceived problem is that, because the union is not recognized under state or federal law, the parties choosing polygamy can arrange their cooperative in any style they choose. Often that choice is to register one legal marriage and have the others live in the home as roommates. These roommates often have no source of income, and because they are not legally married, they are listed on welfare rolls. If polygamy were legalized, the number of legally wedded partners would have to abide by government regulations about how families get government assistance, pay taxes, inherit estates, and are privy to private medical processes.

The final acid test is whether or not people living in groups as husbands and wives will have an effect on any other marriage or living arrangement. The answer is “no”, polygamist lifestyles will not have one iota of influence on anything any of the rest of us choose to do.

There are those living within polygamous situations now and the only effect they render is when the parties are caught and news coverage ensues. We get to point and tsk-tsk at them because we think they are wrong.

Different never has been the single criterion for wrong. It wasn’t that long ago that inter-religious marriages were widely frowned upon–still are within some religions. Fortunately, frowning isn’t the same as legal estoppal. Loving v. Virginia in 1967 made banning interracial marriages illegal. And, in the more normal fashion in which America solves civil wrongs, slowly but surely, inch by clawed inch, states are overriding archaic laws against gay unions. There is no good reason that law-abiding lovers in packs should not be able to wed as well.

[Elsie]

Too late.

Rev. Moon owns the copyright on this.

[Elsie]

Gay Marriage?

Genesis 13:13

Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

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2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

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But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

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If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
 

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Gay Anniversery Gifts

Anniversary	Traditional	Modern	Gay
1st	Paper	Clocks	Brimstone
2nd	Cotton	China	Brimstone
3rd	Leather	Crystal/Glass	Brimstone
4th	Fruit/Flowers	Appliances	Brimstone
5th	Wood	Silverware	Brimstone
6th	Candy/Iron	Wood	Brimstone
7th	Wool/Copper	Desk Sets	Brimstone
8th	Pottery/Bronze	Linens/Lace	Brimstone
9th	Willow/Pottery	Leather	Brimstone
10th	Tin/Aluminum	Diamond Jewelry	Brimstone
11th	Steel	Fashion Jewelry	Brimstone
12th	Silk/Linen	Pearls	Brimstone
13th	Lace	Textile Furs	Brimstone
14th	Ivory	Gold Jewelry	Brimstone
15th	Crystal	Watches	Brimstone
20th	China	Platinum	Brimstone
25th	Silver	Silver	Brimstone
30th	Pearl	Diamond	Brimstone
35th	Coral	Jade	Brimstone
40th	Ruby	Ruby	Brimstone
45th	Sapphire	Sapphire	Brimstone
50th	Gold	Gold	Brimstone
60th	Diamond	Diamond	Brimstone

 

[Elsie]

Unless you marry sisters you get multiple Mother-in-laws. There’s the stumbling block for me. LOL

You might stumble; but others merely step up to the plate...

[MeshugeMikey]

Indeed he ...did.

[Elsie]

I didn’t want to stir up the anti-LDS contingent.

As a Member of the elite Flying Inmen; I just LOVE to be stirred up!!

I get a warm feeling in my busom when I get to post, yet again, multiple pages of Mormon Hiustory, Scripture, Writings and Quotes.

Let the games begin!!

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"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

[Elsie]

You can't marry your sister, your brother, or the family pet;
a sheep, or a goat - at least not yet!

HATER!!

[Elsie]

“ poor, ungainly, and pathetically homely creatures”

Decisions decisions!

Emma Hale only!!

Fanny Alger Lucinda Morgan Harris Louisa Beaman Zina Huntington Jacobs Presendia Huntington Buell Agnes Coolbrith Sylvia Sessions Lyon Mary Rollins Lightner Patty Bartlett Sessions Marinda Johnson Hyde Elizabeth Davis Durfee Sarah Kingsley Cleveland Delcena Johnson Eliza R. Snow Sarah Ann Whitney Martha McBride Knight Ruth Vose Sayers Flora Ann Woodworth Emily Dow Partridge Eliza Maria Partridge Almera Johnson Lucy Walker Sarah Lawrence Maria Lawrence Helen Mar Kimball Hanna Ells Elvira Cowles Holmes Rhoda Richards Desdemona Fullmer Olive Frost Melissa Lott Nancy Winchester Fanny Young

[Elsie]

“I would support polygamy before I would support gay “marriage”.

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Polygamy: How it all got Started

 

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Joe: Hey Emma!   Guess what!?

 

Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?

 

Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.

 

Emma: WHAT!?   You ding bat!  Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says?   After all; YOU are the one that translated it!

 

Joe: Books; schmooks.   All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!

 

 

Emma:      "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"

 

 

Joe: Silly Woman!  You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!

 

 

 

 

 

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...and the rest is HISTORY...

 

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THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

 

  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

 

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Or even HERE:

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 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

 

 

1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

 

 

 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

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Emma: That's IT!   I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!! 

  

            Can't you EVER get straight what GOD tells you???

 

          Doctrines and Covenants 49:16 Wherefore, it is lawful that he should have one ^awife, and they twain shall be ^bone flesh, and all this that the ^cearth might answer the end of its creation;

 

 

 

 

Joe:  DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!!   Wait!!!   I hear a voice again!!!

 

 

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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

 

  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 

 

  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to ^aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, ^areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been ^afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and ^acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be ^bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid ^aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to ^brejoice.

[Tennessee Nana]

yeah well just because Utah embraces polygamy and homosexual marriage in their laws doesn’t mean Tennessee has too...

Tennessee has been traditionally Christian since statehood in 1796...

[Tennessee Nana]

I didn’t want to stir up the anti-LDS contingent
__________________________________________

No you’ll only stir up the anti-Christian lot...

[Tennessee Nana]

Both polygamy and homosexual marriage are equally sin and forbidden according to God...

and while polygamy is numbered amongst the Ten Commandments, homosexual marriage is not...

[Tennessee Nana]

Polygamy has a long history in our culture
_____________________________________

No it hasn’t...

our “culture” is Christian and polygamy while being a required tenet of the Mormon religion, is not part of Christianity

[Tennessee Nana]

Polygamy has a long history in our culture
_____________________________________

If your culture is Mormon or Moslem

[Tennessee Nana]

You can make a better case for polygamy using the Bible
___________________________________________

If you use the Mormon “bible” certainly...

But the God of the Christian Bible is Holy and Righteous...

He tells us in His Bible not to commit adultery...that’s polygamy kid...

[trebb]

Both polygamy and homosexual marriage are equally sin and forbidden according to God... and while polygamy is numbered amongst the Ten Commandments, homosexual marriage is not...

I missed the polygamy deal in the 10 commandments - are you using the "Shall not commit adultery" as the basis?

I'm also unclear of where the Bible itself condemns polygamy or calls it a sin - much of it going on among some main players in the Old Covenant and some instructions against it in the New Covenant, but I don't see it called a sin.

Do you have sources/explanations that might help me grasp it?

[Tennessee Nana]

and I missed the part where God brought Eve and Susie and Mary and Martha and Deborah and a few other women to Adam...

Maybe youre reading the Joseph Smith Testament ???

[daniel1212]

Leave it to Elsie!

[faithhopecharity]

Yes. I was going to post that “damned” quote but It’s a case of “ damned if you do, damned if you don’t “. You’re either damned to Hell ( per bringham ) if you stick with one wife, or your damned to hell ( on earth) if you marry 27 of them. Lord have mercy.

[Elsie]

If you use the Mormon “bible” certainly...

Let's replace 'bible' with 'scripture'.

The Book of MORMON; which some folks THINK is the 'bible' of Mormonism, is merely ONE piece of four 'scriptures' that Mormons use:

Book of MORMON
KJV bible
Doctrines & Covenants
Pearl of Great Price.

Additionally, Brigham Young, the Second Prophet, said that ANY of his sermons could be taken as scripture; but many MORMONs do NOT want to acknowledge this.