Posted on 02/13/2014 8:51:41 PM PST by CorporateStepsister
Measles and chicken pox are the two most highly contagious respiratory route viruses I know of, and measles in adults is VERY bad news.
I caught measles from a patient when I was 28 and I was out of work for 3 months.
Not being immunized (for measles) is absurd.
Mumps. It's mumps that causes orchitis and sterility.
Neither “gaia-health” nor “naturalnews” are medical websites, and they do not reflect the opinions and recommendations of the medical community.
I would suggest informing yourself at actual medical websites. There are a number of excellent ones out there, which specialize in expressing medical concepts in layperson terms. WebMD, Mayo Clinic, and CDC all maintain very good, informative websites. At www.pubmed.org (which turns into a different address after you hit enter), you can find a database of all original medical research reports, many of which can be downloaded for free. You can look up for yourself the research data on various vaccines.
You can also find vaccine data at manufacturer websites.
Before a vaccine can be approved by the FDA, it must be tested in thousands of patients. Anyone who claims that vaccines are untested is lying.
One last thing, about herd immunity. I have no idea how those anti-medical websites describe it, but I will explain what it actually is. It refers to vaccinating a high enough percentage of the population so that even if someone becomes infected, their chance of infecting another person is low, and the chance of establishing an unbroken chain of infection is vanishingly small. The exact percentage that needs to be immune depends on how contagious the disease is. Measles is extremely contagious, so to break the chain of infection requires over 92% of the population to be vaccinated. Wikipedia has a very good section on herd immunity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
It is a waste of my time to debunk individual non-scientific claims from those anti-science websites, so I will end this here.
I had the measles as a kid and chicken pox when I was in the army........I'm still alive!
Your definition of “non-medical” is typically simple - anyone who disagrees with you.
Here’s the problem, though. The Great Unwashed are supposed to be too stupid to think for themselves about their own health, but at the same time, smart enough to trust you and yours for all their medical needs. No wonder mainstream medicine needs the help of laws and cops to make sure the ignorant masses make the correct choice!
And what about those MDs that disagree with you, and write medical papers the riff-raff quote on non-approved websites! What an outrage!
Oh BTW, best if you keep the massive solicitation of sample pharmaceuticals to doctors quiet, and especially the direct kickbacks cancer docs get for using certain drugs (protected by law, of course). After all, people just wouldn’t understand the sophistication of the certified official medical system.
First off, you talk about “slavery” and “breathtakingly imposing on the whole of society”, “the loss of human rights” and “despotism”, “totalitarian powers of the state and blinding people” with regards to vaccinations. I didn’t speak to that aspect, as to whether the “state” should force people to get vaccinated against their will or their religious or political beliefs. That is a whole other topic, worth discussing on its own merits, the pros and cons. I was only speaking to the reality that diseases like measles, a very highly contagious disease like measles, one rife with sometimes fatal complications is not at all innocuous or harmless. Measles was not long ago, before widespread vaccination programs, one of the leading causes of childhood deaths and miscarriages among pregnant women. Getting yourself and your family vaccinated not only protects yourself, it also protects others.
I will also tell you that I am probably more of the “libertarian” minded folks here at FR. But I do not see “libertarianism” or the extent of which I can as a free person exercise my individual rights as being completely unlimited or empowering me live in a complete vacuum and with no regard for my fellow citizens.
We have many laws that protect not our own safety and well being but also those of our neighbors.
For instance, you and I can’t legally operate a car on public roads that has no working brakes, windshield wipers, headlights or drive around on completely bald tires. You and I might own a house, own our own piece of property but we can’t dump garbage and human waste, dead animal carcasses in our front yards and along the street curb as this is a threat to not only our health but to the public health. Likewise I can’t operate my own unregulated nuclear power plant in my basement or run a chemical weapons lab in my bedroom, or a meth lab in my garage even if I’m the only one consuming the meth I produce because the risk that I might blow up not only my own house but the entire nieborhood and expose them to highly toxic chemicals is not just a personal risk. There are limits to individual freedoms even under the most libertarian of definitions; that being “I am free to do as I please as long as what I do causes no harm to or in any way limits the freedom of others.
Likewise, restaurants are subject to health inspections. You might think this is an imposition and on them running their business as they choose but unless you are able to and fully trained and knowledgeable and prepared to conduct your own health inspections every time you go out to eat, you are probably depending on some government imposed standards. That is not to say that all restaurants are 100% compliant 100% of the time, but the regulations and random inspections help keep such establishments in compliance and the penalties for not complying are correct.
Likewise food handlers have to pass tests on safe food handling and it used to be (not sure to what extent it still is) that all food preparers and handlers were subject to regular testing for hepatitis and cholera and TB, something that I think should be done as is done with people working in hospitals and clinics have and that they need to be vaccinated against communicable diseases that they are likely to come in contact with and pass on to others if they are not. Is this “statist” or “despotism” or is this common sense for the common good?
And as a “libertarian” while I might support your right and personal decision not to get vaccinated, as a “libertarian” I would also hold you accountable for your poor decision. If you or a member of your family comes down with measles or any other preventable but highly contagious and life threatening disease, I would support you and your family being forcibly quarantined under the force of law or the right of anyone to whom you transmitted your disease to, especially if they were not able to be vaccinated and you knew you were sick and highly communicable and didn’t care, to sue you for damages. See how the idea of unlimited personal freedom balanced with personal responsibility works? Contrary to what you might think, individual freedom is not a card blanche to do whatever you want without respect to the health, welfare and freedoms and rights of others.
As to me providing “Hyper-descriptive stories about experiencing illness”, you then go on to say “observed collapses in children by such vaccinations cannot actually be, in fact, caused by such vaccinations. Who is more callous, a medical researcher who decides that such child collapses are “statistically insignificant” given the amount of vaccinations, or the parents struggling to deal with the suddenly immune compromised or autistic child”.
Public health records regarding the deaths of children and adults dyeing from measles, polio, influenza, etc. are not pulled out of whole cloth, they are very well documented. You also can’t have it both ways. You can’t claim that one set of solid and very well documented data is just a statistical anomaly and then use another set of rather questionable data and highly Hyper-descriptive stories to be meaningful just because you dismiss one and not the other.
The Autism – vaccination link has been debunked over and over again but that doesn’t stop the anti-vaccine crowd from citing and repeating it as gospel.
And keep in mind that out of any large population of people, children included who receive any vaccination, there will be a very few who experience some sort of an adverse reaction. But the truth is that most of these “adverse” reactions are rather minor; these are things like swelling and redness at the injection site, a mild fever or aches and pains for a day or two, a few may pass out shorty after getting the vaccination but that usually has more to do with fear of needles and a psychological response rather than a physical one, a hysterical response rather than a physical one attributable to the vaccine, and a very, very few may suffer a more adverse reactions to the vaccination, they may have a hyper immune response or they may have some sort of allergic reaction and these can be serious and life threatening in a very few, but yes, “statically speaking” they are anomalies, outliers and the lives saved by vaccination programs are not negated by the very few who suffer some sort of negative effect.
I would go back once again to the modern automobile as an example. Sure we hear stories every once and a while about someone who died in an auto wreck because they couldn’t undo their seat belt when their car went under water or caught in fire or the seatbelt caused an internal injury. But overwhelmingly it has been proven time and time again that wearing seat belts has saved many more lives than the statistically very few that it cause a problem for. I for one am going to wear a seatbelt. If you don’t, fine with me, but don’t expect me to shed a tear for you if you are ejected through the windshield of your car and don’t expect me to pay for your hospitalization, long term care or your funeral.
The rest of your post is chock full of unscientific and hysterical nonsense and exDemMom is better to refute those than I am. But when you talk about “adjuvant-laden vaccinations” and vaccinations being “poisons” this tells me that you really have no idea what and of that even means or how vaccinations work, when you talk about vaccinations “keeping people sick” you really need to educate yourself and do some real research on the topic.
As far as your link “Bedrock of vaccination theory crumbles as science reveals antibodies not necessary to fight viruses” first of all this is from Mike Adam’s Natural News site, not exactly or even remotely a reputable site for scientific or medical news. And it is not because “big medicine” or “big pharma” is keeping him down, it is because it is pure junk science not even honest science. From the link you posted; “Bedrock of vaccination theory crumbles as science reveals antibodies not necessary to fight viruses” one of the comments was:
“A friend forwarded me this article and I was not sure if your analysis of that Harvard Medical School study was correct. I emailed the author, Prof. Uldrich H. von Andrian, to see if his study proved that vaccines were unnecessary. Here's his reply:
“Our study makes no such claims. The work in question has examined a "naive" response of mice to infection with a specific virus, VSV. All we showed is that the animals could survive this infection even if they lacked certain parts of the immune system that are usually activated by vaccines. However, the mice did get infected (i.e. they got sick) and they would get infected again if they were re-exposed to the same virus at a later time. Had they been vaccinated, the viral infection (i.e. sickness) would have been completely prevented. A vaccinated animal would have been protected against this virus for the rest of its life. That's the point of vaccination, one of the most significant and impactful advances in the history of medicine."
Websites like Natural News and dare I say, like a lot of Creationist websites, they take the findings and research papers of actual scientists but then cherry pick and take out of context what they think supports their POV while totally ignoring and willfully omitting that which from the very same paper, doesn’t.
And your other link from Gaia Health? Seriously? Gaia Health? The website that also posts “Economics Are Destroying the Earth: Stunning Video” - Gaia is being destroyed by an artificial construct called economics. We stand back and watch as those self-styled "scientists" of economics play games with figures to justify the destruction of everything. They use the term "externalities" for the ozone, biodiversity, aquifers, and all the rest of nature to pretend that the destruction..
Sure. OMG! Gaia is being destroyed by big pharma, GMO foods, Global Warming, nuclear energy, animal cruelty, and capitalism….did I forget any of the memes?
In the middle of this, I ended up at the Camp Pendleton isolation ward with Rubella - I never heard, but I'll bet I really contributed to something...
Nothing wrong with getting immunized and I’m hopeful that as a society we’ll get back to getting conventional vaccinations and I hope schools maintain standards about requiring kids to be vaccinated in order to be able to attend.
Where to begin?
No, actually, I don’t think you left a single meme out. You also remembered to accuse what you are promulgating, claim scientific basis while merely fronting inflammatory bumper stickers, invite and then carefully sidestep the jurisdictional differences between statutory and common law (while carefully making statutory excesses sound reasonable, and common law reasonableness sound excessively punitive), squeeze the libertarian tag in between the cracks, and, of course, ultimately agree with the invoking of the draconian seizure of the human body by the state for anything it seems preventative.
And that’s not even including your medical lies concerning the MANY autism links to the WAY vaccination is done and the FACT of adjuvant poisons, or your silence about pharmaceutical kickbacks for doctors. So when you throw in admitting to a shill tag team against me, no, you’ve left no meme out.
Nevertheless, your bottom line is that people are too stupid to be trusted with their own health decisions, and that the State must have, at the very least, co-ownership of everyone’s body. AND - you call THAT “libertarianism. “
I’m done here, I’ve said my piece. I only pray God intervenes in this country before people like you succeed in poisoning every last person to illness and death to make sure no one gets sick.
But don’t worry - when the last resistor dies, the official medical journals will confirm that you did the right thing.
Yeah that’s it. We all got vaccinated and died.
1) A lot of people do, in fat, get vaccinated and die. A lot of others get vaccinated and become seriously ill, sometimes chronically or even permanently.
2) The legal issues apparently escape you, so I won't bother your little head with them. Because, among other things, I'm positive that you don't give a damn that the pharmaceutical companies lobbied successfully to get their own drung courts, so that you have to go to these special venues if you get, oh I don't know, poisoned, by a board certified doctor with one of their wonder drugs. But don't bother - the way it works is that your permanent disability will be found within the range of acceptable statistical allowances. See? Like I said, you don't care.
3) Did you know that one of the main damages to the brain of vaccines is the resulting inability to give a damn about things that threaten your life?
4) Actually, I made #3 up. But consider this - if you spill mercury, a hazmat team is required to clean it up. But if a pharmaceutucal company uses mecury as an adjuvant in a vaccine (which is commonly done), and a doctor or nurse injects it into your child (which is commonly done) - shazam! - this deadly toxin is no longer deadly! How do I know? Because peer-reviewed publications by board-certified MDs who get kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies say so, that's why!
5) If vaccines, or their adjuvants (like the safe form of mercury they include, among other safe things) DO cause you not to give a damn about things that threaten your life... how would you know? And if you found out, could you publish it in a board-certifiied MD publication? Or have it acknowledged in a vaccine court?
Have A Nice Day.
” But if a pharmaceutucal company uses mecury as an adjuvant in a vaccine (which is commonly done),”
Proof please. Mercury isn’t used in vaccines.
Proof please. Mercury isn’t used in vaccines.
Well you could google "mercury" and "vaccines," but that would take too much of your valuable time.
And besides, it would only give "About 3,780,000 results" in less than a second, so it's got virtually no cost benefit ratio.
Answer: Not used in children’s vaccines and almost never in others. So tell those fears goodbye.
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
Whether someone disagrees with me or not isn't even relevant. What *is* relevant is whether the person claiming to be a medical professional actually has the education, training, experience, and credentials that back up their claim. While Mike Adams *may* have taken a biology course during his undergraduate work, his PhD in sociology/criminology does not even remotely qualify him as a medical professional because those are not medical fields.
To try to illustrate how ludicrous his posing as some sort of health guru is, let me say this: as a bona-fide medical researcher, I have taken a couple of law classes and received several additional hours of instruction in legal matters. My legal education is as extensive, if not more so, as Mike Adams' medical education. If you were to get sued, would you want me to represent you in court? Or would you rather have a real lawyer who has passed the Bar exam?
I have not checked the credentials of anyone over at "gaia-health", but I would bet my car that they are equally unqualified to speak as medical people.
Here’s the problem, though. The Great Unwashed are supposed to be too stupid to think for themselves about their own health, but at the same time, smart enough to trust you and yours for all their medical needs. No wonder mainstream medicine needs the help of laws and cops to make sure the ignorant masses make the correct choice!
Ironically, the reason I told you where to find real medical resources (used and written by real medical professionals) is because I *do* think you are intelligent enough to make your own decisions. It is imperative to be able to find and verify information yourself in order to make the best decisions for your health. When you listen to quacks and fail to question anything they say, you essentially give control of your health and well-being to people who could not care less about you, who are doing their best to scam you into buying expensive and useless "supplements." Become informed, learn to fact-check, avoid letting quacks make your health decisions for you.
And what about those MDs that disagree with you, and write medical papers the riff-raff quote on non-approved websites! What an outrage!
There are very few MDs who turn to quackery, and those who do are in it for the money. In many cases, they turn to quackery because they simply were not competent as physicians; others turn to quackery purely for profit. Unfortunately, despite the stringent admission process, it is difficult for medical schools to weed out every bad apple. Quacks who have been trained as physicians should be judged as strictly as any non-medically trained quack. Their claims can be fact-checked in the medical literature. Empower yourself--learn to fact-check.
Oh BTW, best if you keep the massive solicitation of sample pharmaceuticals to doctors quiet, and especially the direct kickbacks cancer docs get for using certain drugs (protected by law, of course). After all, people just wouldn’t understand the sophistication of the certified official medical system.
I have not personally seen that happen. As far as I have seen, physicians are limited to prescribing drugs--it is then the patient's choice where to go to have the prescription filled. It is hard for me to imagine how a kick-back scheme would even work, since the physician has no control over which pharmacy you use. As a patient, you have the right to tell your physician that you do not want a certain drug or class of drugs, and your physician will do his/her best to offer an alternative. In the area of prescription drugs, as in the area of medical treatment, knowledge is power. If you just type "prescription drug information" in Google, you will get a long list of websites that provide information. Also, you can go directly to the manufacturer's website to see if they have any information.
You, as the patient, have the final say regarding your medical care decisions. As a medical professional who deeply cares about public health, I do my best to inform and educate people about how to find medical information for themselves. If you choose to listen to quacks instead of actual medical professionals, there is little I can do other than what I have already done. As the old saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." It is up to you to become informed.
You should be happy to know that some states that have allowed "religious" exemptions are rethinking their attitudes towards vaccine requirements. At least one has implemented a requirement for parents seeking exemptions to provide a signed waiver from their physician to verify that they have received accurate vaccine information and choose not to vaccinate anyway. These measures have significantly decreased the number of vaccine exemptions.
I was required to get a measles vaccination prior to attending college. I don't think I've ever seen anyone with measles.
Indeed. I am a zombie, as are most of the people I see every day. It's an outrage!
I'm not going to go through your screed point by point.
My question is, do you have any references, in the form of genuine medical literature indexed in PubMed or another reputable scientific database, to support any of your claims?
Oh, FYI--because the temptation to educate is too strong to resist--mercury is not used in adjuvants. It is used in trace amounts as a preservative in multi-dose vials of vaccine, in the form of sodium azide. In that usage, the dose is extremely small; you get more mercury by eating a tuna-fish sandwich.
The point of vaccination is to ensure that no one has measles upon entering college. Prevention is worth ten times the cure.
I have a “screed” but you demand answers - what kind of answers? Levels of references you want me to provide, which you don’t provide for your own positions.
And, to back your “scientific” attitude, you openly declare that you can’t tell the difference between mercury that is consumed and processed by the adult digestive system, and mercury that is injected into an infant’s bloodstream.
In other words, to use your own example, why don’t we liquify a tuna fish sandwhich and shoot it into your veins, and see what happens, hmmm?
However, you are sure - cross your heart and hope the infant doesn’t die sure - that the form of mercury that is injected by vaccines renders the injected mercury insignificant.
Promise.
Because, of course, of your presumption of a scientific background and your “temptation to educate.”
Also, of course, what you consider to be genuine references are, as I pointed out before, the medical journals published by medical resources that receive grant money from pharmaceutical companies.
You know what? I don’t need any of this. First because you’re just a part of a disingenuous tag-team that doesn’t see the need to live up to the very qualifications you demand from me, as you pick and choose issues you want to address or not, while thinking your memes cover your deficiencies.
Secondly, thugh, because millions of people really are waking up, looking into the published materials here and in many countries, talking with doctors who won’t keep quiet anymore, and refusing to be railroaded into dagerous pharmaceutical experiments that risk their lives whicle being backed solely by arrogant attitudes like the one you’re fronting. So my further efforts here are simply not necessary.
In any event, your bottom line is the same as your agenda - selling the people on being far too stupid to do their own research or render their own decisions about their own health, while at the same time praising them for their intelligence if they just follow your agenda and offer their physical bodies up at your command.
It must just suck to have to deal with such resistant slaves. You’d think that after all these centuries, people would just learn their places and stop thinking they know how to think without your approval for their thinking.
Oh well, you’re just going to have to rely upon that ultimate healthcare benefit of mainstream medicine - people with badges and guns wiping out those who ask too many questions. Especially questions about the limitations fo the official answers, as well as protests based on their own lying eyes.
Not to mention the extreme insult of having people of certain... silent authority... not instantly obeyed.
Becaue above all, healthcare is based on obedience - just like absolutely everything else that dares exist on this planet. Right?
For the safety of the children, of course.
LOL, you’re dismissed.
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