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To: kabar

Firstly, never characterized America as a “cultural ogre” or the culture as “evil”. Does your argument no good to mis characterize mine. The point is that the proactive forward interventions that you champion have largely failed and cost Americans dearly. You rightly point out that many (perhaps most) women in Afghanistan dread the return of the Taliban. Then it is up to them and their own men to reform Afghanistan from within. As said previously American soldiers can kill many Taliban, but they cannot by force change attitudes and customs. The American military cannot enforce American values on the Afghan people. Would you have them guard Afghan abortion clinics? After all the UN champions abortion and you seem to cite the UN as a moral guide.True that African and Muslim cultures have been failed political entities and cultures. Muslims flee toward the lands formerly known as Christendom and Africans, despite all the allegations of racism, seek to live with Caucasians since they know their lives will be better. No law or border will prevent a rational human being from fleeing miserable poverty and chaos toward prosperity and order.These migrations will continue until their native lands become stable and prosperous. Eventually this will happen when technological and scientific advance overwhelm and transform the failed endemic cultures. It will happen with time, not at the point of a bayonet wielded by well meaning American soldiers who’s politician masters are full of all sorts of good wishes and ideals. The soldiers end up being killed or maimed and the politicians and bureaucrats get tenure somewhere.

You celebrate “45,000 Saudis” studying in the US and imply that it is the spearhead of some sort of cultural transformation. Too bad your colleagues in the State Dept. parrot this propaganda and have failed to properly assess what really happens in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. The House of Saud finances and allows the Wahhabi to operate openly. In return the Wahhabi for now hold their criticism of the decadence of the Saudi ruling royals. The Wahhabi in turn motivated and financed the 9/11 hijackers (15 of 19 were educated Saudi citizens)Saudi intelligence was well aware of the plot but somehow despite a huge US diplomatic presence in Saudi Arabia, the State Dept reported nothing. This is just an example of how ineffective the State Dept. has become representing, understanding foreign peoples and protecting Americans. State is staffed with “progressives” who at heart find themselves apologizing for America rather than promoting its interests. Would not be proud to be an alumnus of an organization that has performed so poorly and has John Kerry as its jet lagged gasbag narcissist leader.

You should reflect a bit more on where America now is rather than where it has been. Sure you must wow high school students on career day, but simply am not impressed with your arguments.


52 posted on 02/19/2014 7:11:03 AM PST by allendale
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To: allendale
The point is that the proactive forward interventions that you champion have largely failed and cost Americans dearly.

The US took on the mantle of leader of the Free World in 1945. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Doctrine rebuilt Europe and created alliances like NATO to contain the spread of Communism and protect Western Europe. We oversaw the transition of Japan from a defeated, devastated country into a successful democracy and economic powerhouse.

We stopped the communist invasion of South Korea and enabled the country to set up democratic institutions and establish a vibrant economy. The Cold War ended with a spent Soviet Union that collapsed thus liberating Eastern Europe and allowing the reunification of Germany. I can name many more accomplishments of our proactive leadership. Suffice it to say that we have been spectacularly successful. Vietnam was an exception, but it was due to a lack of political will to achieve a victory over the Communists. However, the dominoes of Thailand, Singapore, and Malaysia did not fall.

The US did not lead from behind until the feckless policy of Obama. He failed to take advantage of the Green Revolution in Iran and made the wrong choices in response to the Arab Spring. His reset with Russia was a disaster. His concession of not following thru on missile defense in Poland and the Czech Republic got us nothing and it hurt relations with the governments of those two countries who took an enormous risk domestically and with Russia by approving the installations. The lack of leadership will cost us far more in the future than the so-called "failed interventions."

You rightly point out that many (perhaps most) women in Afghanistan dread the return of the Taliban. Then it is up to them and their own men to reform Afghanistan from within. As said previously American soldiers can kill many Taliban, but they cannot by force change attitudes and customs.

Right now we have Afghans who are fighting alongside us an against the Taliban. They are suffering the brunt of the casualties as did the Iraqis. We are withdrawing from Afghanistan, but hopefully will leave a residual force to continue supporting the Afghans who want to keep the gains they have made. In a few months there will be elections. Among the candidates, there is one area of consensus, i.e., they want the US to stay and help them. America does not stay where it is not wanted whether it is in South Korea, Japan, or Europe.

The American military cannot enforce American values on the Afghan people. Would you have them guard Afghan abortion clinics? After all the UN champions abortion and you seem to cite the UN as a moral guide.

Now you are being silly. The American military has no interest of "enforcing" American values on anyone. I cited the UN to demonstrate the universality of the values we espouse. I am not touting the UN as a paragon of virtues, but the fact that there is widespread agreement on human rights is indicative of a global consensus.

No law or border will prevent a rational human being from fleeing miserable poverty and chaos toward prosperity and order.

If we or any nation cannot secure its border, then it is no longer a country. I don't accept the inevitability of mass illegal immigration. Countries can and have secured there borders whether it is Israel, Greece, or India.

These migrations will continue until their native lands become stable and prosperous.

Or the countries they are invading become less stable and prosperous than they countries they left. Once you get too many people in the lifeboat, everyone is lost.

Eventually this will happen when technological and scientific advance overwhelm and transform the failed endemic cultures. It will happen with time, not at the point of a bayonet wielded by well meaning American soldiers who’s politician masters are full of all sorts of good wishes and ideals. The soldiers end up being killed or maimed and the politicians and bureaucrats get tenure somewhere.

A vile and disgusting statement. Again, cite me some examples where America at the point of a bayonet tried to impose its values on others. In point of fact, it is the people we have fought against who see military force as a way to force their values on others whether it is the Nazis, Fascists, Communists, or militant Islamists. I have experienced firsthand what the Communists and the Islamists do when they achieve power.

You celebrate “45,000 Saudis” studying in the US and imply that it is the spearhead of some sort of cultural transformation. Too bad your colleagues in the State Dept. parrot this propaganda and have failed to properly assess what really happens in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

I lived five years in Saudi Arabia including during the Gulf War from start to finish. My point on mentioning the number of students studying here is that despite coming from a far different and more restrictive culture in many ways, they still come to the US. If our "cultural imperialism" is so hated, then why come here? The answer should be obvious.

I know what happens in Saudi Arabia much better than you do. They have been our allies and have assisted us in many ways that are not public knowledge. They are also significant trading partners when it comes to consuming American products and services. They buy military weapons from us. We have over 20,000 American civilians working there. The Saudis are the world's biggest exporter of oil and have the largest proven reserves of oil. Until we come up with a substitute for oil, the Saudis will continue to have a major impact on the global economy. It is in our strategic interests to keep the oil flowing.

The House of Saud finances and allows the Wahhabi to operate openly. In return the Wahhabi for now hold their criticism of the decadence of the Saudi ruling royals. The Wahhabi in turn motivated and financed the 9/11 hijackers (15 of 19 were educated Saudi citizens)Saudi intelligence was well aware of the plot but somehow despite a huge US diplomatic presence in Saudi Arabia, the State Dept reported nothing.

Nonsense. The Saudis were not aware of the 9/11 attack. And OBL detested the House of Saud and wanted to overthrow it. AQ has launched attacks in the Kingdom against the Royal family and others, including our consulate in Jeddah.

The Saudis are very concerned about the the threat of Iran and the problems with the Shi'a in the Eastern Province who make up about 10% of the population. If anyone thinks that removing the Royal Family would be a good thing, then they should refer to what happened after the Shah was removed. It would destabilize the region and impact the global economy adversely.

This is just an example of how ineffective the State Dept. has become representing, understanding foreign peoples and protecting Americans. State is staffed with “progressives” who at heart find themselves apologizing for America rather than promoting its interests. Would not be proud to be an alumnus of an organization that has performed so poorly and has John Kerry as its jet lagged gasbag narcissist leader.

LOL. You can attack the State Department all you want, but you don't have a clue what we do or say abroad. We never apologize for America. We leave that up to the political appointees and elected officials to do that. We have no control over who is President or who is the Secretary of State. We represent American interests only. And many Foreign Service Officers have given their lives in the service of their country.

You should reflect a bit more on where America now is rather than where it has been. Sure you must wow high school students on career day, but simply am not impressed with your arguments.

I don't have to impress you. You prefer to deal in emotion and innuendo rather than facts. As a former naval officer and foreign service officer, I found your comments to be uninformed, offensive, and insulting.

53 posted on 02/19/2014 8:42:05 AM PST by kabar
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