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To: reed13k
"...People often cite the Nimitz story(and he wasn’t the only one to have survived similar situations)..."

I just finished reading "Six Frigates", and when you see what those Captains did to their ships and got away with it. Well, I guess in those days, you couldn't avoid running aground.

I have an acquaintance who lives lives in Hull, a professional sailor. We went out in his small boat one night and got stuck. Not hard, but to the point where maneuvering the load, etc might just give you enough room to get off.

He was awfully matter-of-fact about it, where I thought I might be a little more stressed out by it, but he just said something like "If you are on a boat around here, you're gonna run aground someday."

Anyway, where in the Navy's history did they make that switch to where grounding was the worst thing you could do? The world wonders.

55 posted on 02/19/2014 7:46:19 PM PST by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: rlmorel

I believe it occurred in the late 60s after the USS Everett F. Larsson (DD-830) was cut in two by the HMAS Melbourne (aussie carrier). (for anyone who’s seen the great training film “I Relieve You, Sir” just remember: “it’s too close for mo-board we’ll eye it in”). Shortly thereafter or before was the Forest fire...I mean Forrestal incident off the coast of Vietnam.

Then you had the mid-70s elimination of the draft creating a professional navy and true career dedicated sailors. (not in itself a bad thing but combined with the next two...)

Closer and immediate communications have also led to increased oversight of decisions from “home” at all levels.

The final piece of the pie though and I think the one that made everything so political, unaccepting of risk takers, and career killers for any mistake (including PC nonsense) was the change to an up or out promotion system.

(yes, I would have considered staying in if allowed to complete 20 as a LT instead of worrying about making the next 2 promotions to get to 20 in an ever tightening pool that could result in missing retirement by 2-5 years and losing the investment of my younger years - in the end it caught me in the reserves anyway due to draw downs before 9-11.)

So overall I’d say it changed in the last 30 years alongside alot of the rest of our cultural issues.

(For more on the Larsson/Melbourne I provide this summary from http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/754.htm: On June 3 1969, while operating with the Royal Australian Navy off Luzon, USS Frank E. Evans was operating in company with the Australian aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne. At flying stations, Melbourne signaled Evans, which was to port of the carrier, to take up the rescue destroyer position. The logical movement would be to make a turn to port and describe a circle taking up station on the carrier’s port quarter. Inexplicably, instead of turning to port, USS Frank E Evans turned to starboard, cutting across Melbourne’s bow and was cut in half in the ensuing collision. Her bow section sank instantly, taking 74 of her crew down with it. At the time of the collision USS Frank E. Evans’s captain was asleep and the ship was under command of a junior officer who was not qualified to stand watch, having failed at his previous board. As a memorial to her lost crew the USN sank the stern section as a target in Subic Bay October 10 1969.)


56 posted on 02/20/2014 9:38:19 AM PST by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothings)
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