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To: Timber Rattler

Combat Firearms “Report Card” from Iraq (Google search)

1) The M-16 rifle: Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is more popular because it’s lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems also. They lack the ability to mount the various optical gun sights and weapons lights on the picatinny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in a desert environment.

They all hate the 5.56 mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinder block structure common over there and even torso hits can’t be reliably counted on to put the enemy down.

Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead insurgents show a high level of opiate use.

2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine gun. Big thumbs down... Universally considered a piece of doo-doo. Chronic jamming problems, most of which require partial dis-assembly (that’s fun in the middle of a firefight).

3) The M9 Beretta 9 mm: Mixed bag. Good gun performs well in desert environment; but they all hate the 9 mm cartridge. The use of handguns for self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9 mm: Bad guys hit multiple times and still in the fight.

4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for clearing houses to good effect. (Great weapon - I used these when transporting prisoners. Bud)

5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 NATO (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun, developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!) Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts ‘em down. Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up the structure over there.

6) The M2 50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. “Ma Deuce” is still worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper - puts their appendage in the dirt, every time. The most coveted weapon in-theater.

7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol around out there. Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on one. With few exceptions, one can reliably be expected to put ‘em down with a torso hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it... The old government model.45’s are being re-issued en masse.

8) The M-14: Thumbs way up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round.

9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle suicide bombers (we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy. It is definitely here to stay.

10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win mag. Heavily modified Remington 700’s. Great performance. Snipers have been used heavily to great effect. Rumor has it a marine sniper on his third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcock’s record for confirmed kills with OVER 100.


3 posted on 02/21/2014 3:48:14 AM PST by Makana (Self-esteem is the new intelligence. - Greenfield)
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To: Makana

What does the report card look like for the Soviet Bloc weapons?


4 posted on 02/21/2014 3:56:22 AM PST by WhiskeyX ( provides a system for registering complaints about unfair broadcasters and the ability to request a)
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To: Makana

The fault with the M-4 is mostly carbon build-up in the gas-powered receiver assemblies - the propellant burn causes the piston to jam.

A modification of the gas-powered system, the HK-416, has apparently solved this problem in the field, but it is not standard military issue.

According to the solicitation for the new upper receiver assemblies, the 416 “allows Soldiers to replace the existing M4 upper receiver with an HK proprietary gas system that does not introduce propellant gases and the associated carbon fouling back into the weapon’s interior. This reduces operator cleaning time, and increases the reliability of the M4 Carbine, particularly in an environment in which sand and dust are prevalent.”

One wonders at the priorities of the military procurement system.


5 posted on 02/21/2014 4:00:30 AM PST by alloysteel (Obamacare - Death and Taxes now available online. One-stop shopping at its best!)
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To: Makana

Two one hundred year old Browning designs still kicking ass.


6 posted on 02/21/2014 4:11:16 AM PST by CrazyIvan (Obama phones= Bread and circuits.)
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To: Makana

Great post. Thanks for posting it.


9 posted on 02/21/2014 4:14:31 AM PST by circlecity
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To: Makana

I couldn’t agree more with the Combat Firearms “Report Card”.
When I first arrived in Vietnam, then gave me an M14. Best firearm that I’ve ever used. A few months later they took it away and handed me an M16. The piece of crap M16 jammed during a fire fight a month later. I had no idea that I could disassemble, fix and reassemble the damn thing as fast as I did.
I own a Mossberg 12Ga. I love it.


10 posted on 02/21/2014 4:20:22 AM PST by BuffaloJack (Freedom isn't free; nor is it easy. END ALL TOTALITARIAN ACTIVITY NOW.)
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To: Makana
Of the wide range of weapons I've used. I prefer .30 caliber rifle rounds (7.62-5 X 39,51,53,55,61). The Garand/M-14 mechanism just doesn't jam. I've never experienced a single jam in an FN FAL either.

My AR-15s give me issues and I don't like the mechanism. I frankly hate the charging handle concept. Right handed shooters should have a charging handle on the left side of the receiver (trigger hand never moves on reload/charging) that can be jiggled if there is an issue; it is far and away the best design.

The problem with the 9x19 in military use is mainly the ammunition. Enery is about the same as a .45ACP (if the poster that has an issue with non-SAAMI 'ACP' has an issue with my use of 'ACP', go away), but without hollow-points the parabolic FMJs just punch nice little holes.

If the military goes to a new handgun (and they should) it would be logical for them to move to the .40 S&W round, although I'd want to see the effectiveness of .40 FMJs compared to the .45. One problem with gel wound channel studies is that they look at far to deep of penetration. If the wound channel only starts getting ‘ugly’ after the bullet has penetrated over 6”, its probably not that great, as your average 3rd world human body isn't much thicker than that. Its the first 4” that probably matter most.

Ok, off my soap box.

18 posted on 02/21/2014 4:55:18 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Makana

Good food for thought. Thanks for sharing.


21 posted on 02/21/2014 5:19:23 AM PST by wally_bert (There are no winners in a game of losers. I'm Tommy Joyce, welcome to the Oriental Lounge.)
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To: Makana
Here's a solution to the jamming. As you'll see this isn't a new story item.

Weapons Lube Issued by Army May be Costing Lives in Iraq

32 posted on 02/21/2014 4:06:02 PM PST by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
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To: Makana

When I was a squad leader in Nam, I was regularly screaming at my guys to lighten up on the “auto” spot on the selector lever.

The M-16 rifle was NOT designed to be a Light Machine Gun. It doesn’t have a quick change barrel and it fires from a closed bolt. There is a time and place for full auto. (Gaining initial fire superiority, suppresive fire, final few yards of an assault, and when final protective fires are ordered.) Sometimes you may be forced into continual rock and roll but most often you are not.

But much of the time full auto is used unnecessarily, and leads to an unnecessary need for resupply and undue wear on overheated barrels. The direct impingement gas system does allow more carbon fouling into the reciever, but it also helps with controllability in full auto fire. The straight line recoil and the lack of a piston slapping back and forth makes it much smoother in that mode.

In Vietnam I carried an M-16A1 with a basic load of 600 rounds plus, often went through much or most of that in a day, and had very few stoppages with my routinely maintained rifle, none of which were not easily cleared with an immediate action drill.

The AK series and the AR platform rifles are both great infantry weapons with their own strengths and weaknesses. I am extremely familiar with it and would not hesitate to select it as an infantry arm. But as I consider their aggregate virtues, I would go with the M16/M4 every time, and I served as infantry in two wars.


33 posted on 02/21/2014 4:29:18 PM PST by DMZFrank
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