Posted on 02/24/2014 5:17:08 PM PST by SoFloFreeper
none of us are “good” by ourselves or by anything we do. you don’ t win prizes for following the law - ie merely doing what is expected of you.
those God considers “good” are those covered in the perfection of their Savior Jesus. His righteousness is imputed/credited to us and we are able to be considered “good” by God’s standard, because of Christ.
nope it doesn’t.
for those that never wanted anything to do with God when alive on earth, and thought how terrible and awful it would be to live according to God’s design as put forth in Scripture,
being forced to live in heaven, like that, for all eternity, would be hell for those people.
God doesn’t force Himself on people. He knocks at the door to get them to receive Him, in a number of ways, but if they don’ t want to, and want to stay separate from God, He respects them enough as people, not to force them to be with Him. He would rather all come to Him but it’s their decision.
it wouldn’t be a free choice, and what kind of God would He be, then?
if anything, the existence of Hell proves God doesn’t force people to accept Him if they don’t want to.
Where is your Scriptural support for that view? You would be wise to believe the Word of God and not vain philosophy. If the Bible isn’t your authority you have a religion of your own making.
“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”
—Colossians 2:8
Also, where do you get the idea men stop sinning against God when they die? Do you suppose men in Hell suddenly love God with all their might? Do you believe God gives fallen men who have been cast into the pit a new nature free of sin?
But supposing men cannot sin in eternity, how long does it take a finite man to pay for a lifetime of crimes against an infinite being? Scripture suggests he can never pay that debt.
Depends on what you mean by heaven. Scripture is instruction for getting into heaven. It is not a description of heaven, except in the most general of terms. Shall the discipline last forever? Is there no release even in heaven? Or is heaven what pleases each person? Or is heaven he perfect collective, where everyone wants the same thing at all times?
Another question is whether it is possible to experience God's love and reject it. Or whether those who reject God, do so because they have never experienced it. It would seem that God's love is desireable over all other things. If that is true, then experiencing God's love should end the desire for anything else. If it doesn't, then God's love is somehow deficient in desireability, which is impossible.
But if people sin for lack of experiencing God's love, then who's fault is that? Shall God punish people forever because they never experienced God? In the alternative, shall God punish people forever because they found God's love deficient?
All of this becomes infinitely less important if hell is not infinite. If hell is not infinite, the focus shifts to the infinitude of God's love.
The same language is used for those who live with God eternally and those who die eternally.
Both experience their destinies for forever.
Seems like you’re not taking the Bible seriously.
Hope your Dad gets better.
Well, that certainly is a good biblical exegesis. < /sarcasm>
Which scripture? Which Bible? Do you think the differences between the various Christian Bibles is trivial? Are you willing to accept any Bible, from any denomination or translation, including Catholic and Protestant - it doesn't matter?
Of have you decided, upon your own personal contemplation, which Bible you believe is true, and which are false? And how is that not a religion of your own making? Because others agree with you? So the truth is subject to a vote?
We all stand alone before God. We do not do it as members of a church, or a congregation, or a family. We choose our beliefs, and we live them, and we are responsible for them. Even within the Bible you choose for yourself, which you believe is the standard foundation of religion, there is a history of people choosing this instead of that, throughout its history. Did they make their own religion, or were they inspired by God? If I choose this and not that, am I inspired by God? How would you know?
It always amazes me that people are not joyful over finding a path for themselves. No, it's never enough - it's always so important that others be wrong. And what are the accusations? The same as being carried out by the accusers themselves. Incredible.
Yes, it was, actually. Too bad it wasn't at a level you could appreciate.
>>I believe the teachings of an eternal hell are incorrect.
Existence is Hell.
Yes, I especially liked your specific textual references and Scriptural quotes, as well as the support you cited from the church fathers during the early centuries.
< /sarcasm>
“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.” (John 6:45)
Believe as you will, I’ve been “taught of God” and I know there is only one way to salvation. Rather than forging your own path, you would be well-served to find that narrow way.
“Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” (John 7:14)
You post as if we don’t have a reliable record of God’s Word. That’s far from true. I totally reject Catholicism. However, despite the subtle misinterpretations in their Bible, the narrow way of salvation is made plain in their text. Sadly, they reject it.
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12)
Why I Choose to Believe the Bible
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=530914253
Do you know the gospel?
The True Gospel
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=221101933219
< /sarcasm>
Well it's really a matter of understanding priorities, isn't it? I mean, to look at the entire Bible and consider every line of it perfectly equal to every other line, would mean that there would be no way to understand the relationship of the teachings to each other. That's why people study the Bible and don't just read it, so that they can understand relative importance, and there by interpret its applications to life. Right?
But fortunately, Jesus specifically told us the most important part of the Bible. The part against which every other part has to be compared, in order to understand meaning. The part which cannot ever be contradicted, because it is the root, the most important part, and the guide for all the other parts.
Specifically, in Matthew 22:37-40: "Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Could there be any greater gift in Bible study? Being told by the Savior Himself what is the greatest commandment, from which all law hangs? Against which ALL other teachings bow, and are secondary, and must serve by their interpretations (including, specifically "the church fathers during the early centuries")?
I, for one, choose not to defy Jesus' direct command in understanding His teachings. And I assumed that because you are apparently a Bible scholar, you would also be well aware of this fundamental and absolute basis for ALL interpretation, and that therefore I would not have to quote it.
But I often assume too much of others.
< /notsarcasm>
Life on Earth may be hellish a great deal of the time, but it is not hell. On Earth, you can still choose to help someone else, at the very least, even if you can no longer help yourself. And if nothing else is available, you can pray for people. And despite everything, love and goodness arise in the most unexpected times and places.
In hell the suffering is too intense for anything other than crying out to God in agony, if a person can even remember that. And there is no relief, and no break.
People have poor imaginations. It's quite a problem.
Well, you managed to get one scriptural text in a response that supports a non-Biblical POV.
Unfortunately for you, that quote by Christ does nothing to bolster your assertions regarding hell.
Maybe someday you’ll get serious regarding the Word of God.
And that truly is my hope.
Stuff your "true hope" and your brazen hypocrisy. Hope is for for people who reject the Word of God when it is presented to them. Or do you want to take the position that when Jesus said that that was the greatest commandment, He was mistaken? Who is not being "serious"? Or is that the phrase you use when people disagree with YOU? How annoying that must be, that they don't see that you ARE the Word of God.
Your trivialization and dismissal of the influence of what Jesus Himself named the greatest of all the commandments, and your inability to comprehend the influence of that fundamental definition on the rest of ALL of Biblical study, is a SERIOUS failing.
I "hope" you're actually speaking out of ignorance. Otherwise, some day you will discover to your horror that you will have hell to pay for your insolence in misleading Jesus' most precious teachings. What did He say about that? Oh yes: "whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
Ahh, an ad hominem attack. Looks like you’ve truly exhausted your evidence.
Good night.
you forget that in heaven, we will be made perfect and we will no longer have a sin nature, we will not desire to do the things that we knew were wrong to enjoy while we were alive on earth as a sinner/saint. The struggles we have to fight our “old man” won’t occur because that part of us will be gone, and it will be an answer to our prayers and we will no longer have to fight against bad urges and desires.
as far as discipline goes there will be none because there won’t be a need for it. nobody who’s been cleansed and made perfect will need it because they will not have a sin nature anymore to be tempted and sin.
Given your posts you seem to have a very negative view on heaven and the afterlife. Maybe if you start out with the mindset/reference frame that God loves us, and is on our side, and give Him the benefit of the doubt, and you might as well as so far in your existence has He killed you? - instead of starting from a negative frame of reference focused on punishment and never-ending judgment (which is not what He’s all about), you might realize some different conclusions.
Matthew 22:37-40 is never exhausted.
And never deficient.
Jesus said so.
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