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Ukraine crisis: US sends F-16 fighter jets to Poland
The Telegraph ^ | 06 Mar 2014 | Barney Henderson

Posted on 03/06/2014 9:56:38 AM PST by lizol

17.42 Poland's defence ministry has confirmed that the US military will send 12 F-16 fighter jets and 300 service personnel to Poland next week for a training exercise whose scope was expanded in response to the crisis in neighbouring Ukraine.

Tomasz Siemoniak said the training exercise, centred on the Lask air force base in central Poland, was originally to have been smaller and involved only transport aircraft. He said Poland requested it be beefed up after Russia's intervention in Ukraine's Crimea Peninsula.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: poland; ppoland; russia; ukraine

1 posted on 03/06/2014 9:56:38 AM PST by lizol
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To: lizol

But with no anti-missile system to protect them from a Russian first strike, what is their purpose? Also, a handful of jets within flying distance of one of the largest and most competent air forces in the world? Oh, there’s some good thinking.


2 posted on 03/06/2014 9:59:03 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: lizol

Are we nuts or what?? There is absolutely no reason for these fighters except to antagonize.


3 posted on 03/06/2014 10:00:25 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: lizol
32 Tactical Air Base in Lask











4 posted on 03/06/2014 10:05:09 AM PST by lizol
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To: lizol

We must show the world that we are DOING something!! /s


5 posted on 03/06/2014 10:08:01 AM PST by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: Sacajaweau

Common sense is not generally to be found in Washington DC. These days, the qualities needed to get elected often preclude the quality of good sense. The conventional wisdom on the Potomac is madness when it comes to foreign affairs.


6 posted on 03/06/2014 10:09:41 AM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Gen.Blather
one of the largest and most competent air forces in the world

LOL -- Russian pilots get almost no training.

There are several Patriot AA missile batteries in Poland.

7 posted on 03/06/2014 10:12:38 AM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: Sacajaweau

Yep. Complete stipidity on our part to intervene. We don’t want a gayed up and feminized led military to try and take on a “real” army with “real men” who will twist them like pretzels if they engage in limp wrist-to-hand combat


8 posted on 03/06/2014 10:13:21 AM PST by jsanders2001
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To: Sacajaweau
Are we nuts or what?? There is absolutely no reason for these fighters except to antagonize.

This must be penance for abandoning Poland with our promised missile defense system that was aborted by Obama.

9 posted on 03/06/2014 10:14:58 AM PST by Tenacious 1 (My whimsical litany of satyric prose and avarice pontification of wisdom demonstrates my concinnity.)
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To: lizol


Lavrov: Why the long face?
Kerry: I was about to ask you the same question.
10 posted on 03/06/2014 10:20:21 AM PST by Chad_the_Impaler
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To: lizol

Just what kind of man-ly man would have made a decision like this?


11 posted on 03/06/2014 10:23:32 AM PST by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: pierrem15

“Russian pilots get almost no training.”

Given the huge investment a fighter represents that’s not likely true any longer. During the early ‘90’s, probably. Russia was broke. But, they’re rolling in oil money now. It would be foolish to have pilots who were not qualified to fight as well as their adversaries.

From what I read about the Patriots in Gulf 1, they just as frequently hit the ejected fuel tanks as the free-falling warhead. They were not nearly as good as the military claimd; the claims being for political purposes rather than military.


12 posted on 03/06/2014 10:23:33 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: lizol

The Air Force should throw a few F-22’s into that mix.Or at least make the claim they’re doing that.

The Russian’s would never know untill they got stung.


13 posted on 03/06/2014 10:25:11 AM PST by puppypusher ( The World is going to the dogs.)
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To: lizol
Kościuszko -WE ARE HERE!
14 posted on 03/06/2014 10:30:34 AM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: Gen.Blather

Are the Russians’ missiles sufficiently trained?

The Patriots are several blocks advanced from where they were in ‘91. I’m not sure if the Pols have any of the ballistic intercept-capable missiles.


15 posted on 03/06/2014 10:30:36 AM PST by Justa
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To: Sacajaweau

That is the reason.


16 posted on 03/06/2014 10:40:01 AM PST by Psalm 144 (My citizenship is not here, Pharaoh.)
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To: Sacajaweau

Well, maybe the reason is, that one of your most loyal allies feels threatend by an agressive neighbour?

You know - North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, an alliance, brothers in arms (Afghanistan, Iraq), things like that.


17 posted on 03/06/2014 10:44:38 AM PST by lizol
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To: lizol

Looks like an electronics pod on one of those. Not exactly a sneaky move.


18 posted on 03/06/2014 10:44:44 AM PST by CodeToad (Keeping whites from talking about blacks is verbal segregation!)
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To: exit82

A billion dollars that we pulled out of our ..... is certainly doing something. It’s called REALISTICALLY...a bribe....something forbidden by the 1994 Memorandum.


19 posted on 03/06/2014 10:51:42 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Tenacious 1

That’s a good point and I’m afraid (with all the mikes off) Poland shoved it to us on that little item.


20 posted on 03/06/2014 10:53:02 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Gen.Blather

“Also, a handful of jets within flying distance of one of the largest and most competent air forces in the world? Oh, there’s some good thinking.”

I’m sure the whole point is to “appear” to be doing “something”, while that “something” is not actually threatening to the Sovie-— er Russia.

Like during the Sochi Olympics we sent 2 ships to ostensibly be in a position to evacuate Americans should there be a terrorist incident at the Games. You might expect that we would send an amphibious ready group built around one of our LHA/LHD helicopter carriers? Nope! Too provocative! Instead we sent a “command ship” and an obsolete frigate that lacked serious air defense capabilities (and the frigate ran aground outside a Turkish port).

Obama is perfected the art of getting credit for doing something without actually having done it.


21 posted on 03/06/2014 11:44:25 AM PST by Tallguy
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To: Gen.Blather

“From what I read about the Patriots in Gulf 1, they just as frequently hit the ejected fuel tanks as the free-falling warhead. They were not nearly as good as the military claimd; the claims being for political purposes rather than military.”

Partially true: The part about the Patriots in the Gulf War not being as effective as advertised.

The Iraqi Scuds were not designed to separate the warhead (the way modern missiles do). If the warhead separated it was because the Iraqi missile was so poorly manufactured that it simply broke up. The Patriot (then) was designed for a center-of-mass kill, so quite naturally it would go for the falling rocket (rather than the tiny warhead that was spinning off course due to unplanned separation.)

I would point out that missile defense is mostly about software and radar capabilities, and those change fast. You probably shouldn’t assume that the Patriots used in the Gulf War are in any way representative of the Patriots in the field today, 24 years later.

In Operation Iraqi Freedom an F/A-18 returning from a patrol was locked onto by a Patriot battery. There were two alternatives available to the pilot — eject or destroy the radar with a HARM anti-radiation missile (to break the missile lock). The pilot did the latter & survived.


22 posted on 03/06/2014 11:54:19 AM PST by Tallguy
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To: Tallguy

“You probably shouldn’t assume that the Patriots used in the Gulf War are in any way representative of the Patriots in the field today, 24 years later.”

Many years ago as a Honeywell engineer I was in the position to suggest a no-cost upgrade that significantly improved a fielded system. The company said no. (They could have done it as systems cycled through for repairs.) If the customer didn’t pay for it they wouldn’t do it. So, I tried the other approach and the customer didn’t have any funding.

Years later I was working on a periodic obsolesce upgrade to an army system for another company. I found we were designing in parts that would be unavailable in just five years when longer-lived parts were available. I asked to switch to the longer lived parts and was told, “No, the contract says five years. If we put in those parts we won’t get to do this again in five years.”

So, how improved are the Patriots? Probably not as much as they could be.


23 posted on 03/06/2014 12:03:38 PM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: lizol
And if Putin sends some planes to Cuba, here we go again


24 posted on 03/06/2014 12:06:41 PM PST by McGruff (Don't worry. John Kerry is in charge.)
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To: puppypusher

You seem to be one of those FReepers who answer the earlier “Are we nuts?” query in the affirmative.


25 posted on 03/06/2014 12:09:37 PM PST by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: Gen.Blather

“So, how improved are the Patriots? Probably not as much as they could be.”

Well, you’ve shown the other side of the government contracting “coin”. That’s for sure. It’s why aircraft companies basically roll-over & allow a fully designed aircraft project to die just prior to entering production. Why? They don’t want to actually BUILD the thing, because typically fabrication gets spread among all aircraft companies, not just the award winner. What they DO WANT is to engineer the next aircraft. Because that is what they are — engineering companies.


26 posted on 03/06/2014 12:13:45 PM PST by Tallguy
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To: Tallguy

“They don’t want to actually BUILD the thing, because typically fabrication gets spread among all aircraft companies, not just the award winner”

Having spent a career on the engineering side I can verify that companies that suddently get a contract do have problems. Suddenly, the design engineers are not needed as much. Oh, they may get a few hours of support time here or there, but it’s not unusual to lay off a significant portion if there isn’t another design project to put them on.

Then, they have to figure out how they’ll produce the system and I’ve seen many a screw-up here. To optimize the profit for all the stuff they gave away at the negotiating table they decided, say, that they’ll use level 5 technicians (hairdressers, essentially) instead of highly trained level 1’s. Then there’s usually a cascade of failures due to laying off the engineers who could have transitioned it because they were too expensive. Then there are the empire builders and company politicians who are just out for themselves; the product be damned.

Just when I think I’ve seen ever failure possible somebody thinks up something new. (The paperless factory, for example, predicated on the idea that there will be no failures whatsoever...snicker.)


27 posted on 03/06/2014 12:34:21 PM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: steve86

“You seem to be one of those FReepers who answer the earlier “Are we nuts?” query in the affirmative.”

If I’m nuts because I believe in stopping a tyrant once he tells you he’s on a mission to conquer terratory than so be it.

I don’t want to see the other former Soviet Republic’s getting reannexed by that tyrant Putin.Most notably Poland and the Czech Republic.Hell!I’m not even Polish or Czech for that matter.

Just someone who remembers history.


28 posted on 03/06/2014 2:16:51 PM PST by puppypusher ( The World is going to the dogs.)
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To: puppypusher

Why would Putin want Poland and the Czech Republic? Serious question from someone who has no idea.


29 posted on 03/06/2014 3:13:12 PM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: ilovesarah2012

“Why would Putin want Poland and the Czech Republic? Serious question from someone who has no idea.”

Why did the Russians want Eastern Germany?Why did Russia Want Poland?Hungary and Czechoslovakia the first Time they invaded it.Someone needs to read a history book.

In the Past Russia invaded those counties to use as a buffer against Germany who they have had a series of wars with.

But I can’t give them a pass because of that.After-all Russia is a Nuclear power while Germany and those other countries at present are not.


30 posted on 03/06/2014 3:44:18 PM PST by puppypusher ( The World is going to the dogs.)
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To: puppypusher

So Putin is afraid of Germany and that’s why he wants Poland and the Czech Republic?


31 posted on 03/06/2014 4:54:22 PM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: All
The question should be. How long would it take Russia to take control of the baltics and maybe Poland or Chekoslovakia
32 posted on 03/06/2014 5:17:31 PM PST by mulder1 ("The past is prologue")
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To: pierrem15

“LOL — Russian pilots get almost no training.”

Old news. They have been rapidly increasing defense busget in recent years.


33 posted on 03/07/2014 12:31:11 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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