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Ukrainian military abandoning bases in Crimea after being warned they are now “enemy combatants”
News Corp Australia ^ | 3-7-14 | Charles Miranda

Posted on 03/06/2014 5:40:12 PM PST by tcrlaf

RUSSIA has scuttled a decommisioned vessel in waters off the Crimean town of Myrnyi, effectively blocking access for five Ukrainian Naval ships harboured there.

In the early hours of Thursday Russian naval personnel scuttled the decommissioned ship, Ochakov, blockading access for five Ukrainian Naval vessels now trapped inside the Southern Naval Headquarters. Russian war vessels continue to patrol the coast.

The move by Russia’s navy comes amid reports that Ukrainian military in Crimea appear to be abandoning their bases.

In an extraordinary development to the crisis now politically engulfing most of Europe, the Crimean regional government declared Ukrainian soldiers to be enemy combatants and warned them to surrender and leave the region.

Troops at some barracks across the Crimea were heeding the warning and walking out of barracks through blockades of Russian troops and local “self defence” units.

Crimea Deputy Prime minister Rustam Temirgaliev said the soldiers could switch sides and don Russian military uniforms and take Russian citizenship, or just surrender and leave the “Russian state”. “If they do not agree, we are prepared to offer them safe passage from the territory of Crimea to their Ukrainian homeland,” he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.com.au ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crimea; crimeacrisis; russia; ukraine
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Accepting the inevitable, it seems.
1 posted on 03/06/2014 5:40:13 PM PST by tcrlaf
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To: tcrlaf

Coming to America soon.


2 posted on 03/06/2014 5:46:54 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: tcrlaf

Probably defecting after putting on a show for the world... They did what Russia want them to do.

Ukraine is in big trouble precisely because they can’t trust vast swaths of their military. Thus, the Ukraine’s only hope is for outside assistance.


3 posted on 03/06/2014 5:51:18 PM PST by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: tcrlaf

The protests stemmed from Ukraine’s massive debt. The deal from the EU included trimming pensions and other social benefits.
per Bruce at Mish’s: part of the IMF repairs for Ukraine will be to cut pensions in half and to make consumers pay market prices for things like natural gas. If Russia does indeed take on Crimea and the citizens get to maintain or even enhance their lifestyle whilst Ukrainians get the Greek treatment


4 posted on 03/06/2014 5:55:55 PM PST by griswold3 (Post-Christian America is living on borrowed moral heritage)
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To: tcrlaf

The Russian version of the Ukrainian Anschluss.


5 posted on 03/06/2014 6:01:42 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededication to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: tcrlaf

Look at who is worried about Constitutionality all of a sudden.


6 posted on 03/06/2014 6:08:14 PM PST by NonValueAdded (Screw the farmers. I can get everything I need at the grocery store.)
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To: Thunder90

“they can’t trust vast swaths of their military. Thus, the Ukraine’s only hope is for outside assistance.”

So if parts of their military is not upset enough to fight, or worse, wants to switch sides,,,,, we should fight on their behalf? And for what?? To liberate a place where Russians have had a fleet since the fleet consisted of sailing ships?


7 posted on 03/06/2014 6:08:40 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Norm Lenhart

“The Russians escaped while we weren’t watching them, like Russians will.”

for you young folks Lawyers in Love by Jackson brown….circa 1983


8 posted on 03/06/2014 6:14:42 PM PST by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: longfellowsmuse

83...God was it so long ago? As if I didn’t feel old enough... ;)


9 posted on 03/06/2014 6:20:16 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: tcrlaf; All
The Ochakov, a Kara-Class Cruiser, sunk as a blockship. Not exactly small:
10 posted on 03/06/2014 6:25:21 PM PST by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: tcrlaf

Wow,,, that’s a big one. When this is sorted out, that’s gonna take some effort to get out of there.


11 posted on 03/06/2014 6:27:26 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino

a Kara-Class late-60’s-era cruiser, that was already heading for the scrapper’s torch.

Laid up for 27 years, since 1987. Was to be rebuilt in the 90’s, but caught fire in the yard, heavily damaging it. Finally was written off and decommissioned in 2011.


12 posted on 03/06/2014 6:47:32 PM PST by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: tcrlaf
This is the correct ship, 19.12.1969


13 posted on 03/06/2014 7:05:32 PM PST by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: tcrlaf
From the article :
"Mr Temirgaliev’s words came after the Crimean Parliament also voted unanimously in favour of the autonomous Ukrainian state becoming part of Russia."

au·ton·o·mous
[aw-ton-uh-muhs]
adjective
1.Government.
a. self-governing; independent; subject to its own laws only.
b.pertaining to an autonomy.
2. having autonomy; not subject to control from outside; independent: a subsidiary that functioned as an autonomous unit.

From the article :
"Ukrainian opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko slammed the plan, saying it would be illegitimate and unconstitutional."

The Ukraine wouldn't have had them as part of their country in the first place if they hadn't agreed to allowing the Crimea to be self-governing.

IMHO, the Ukraine is trying to have their cake and eat it, too by invoking their Constitution after already setting the Crimea up as autonomous.

14 posted on 03/06/2014 7:14:00 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: DesertRhino
So if parts of their military is not upset enough to fight, or worse, wants to switch sides,,,,, we should fight on their behalf? And for what?? To liberate a place where Russians have had a fleet since the fleet consisted of sailing ships?

Folks in those bases *shouldn't* fight; they're a tripwire force provisioned for peacetime. They're completely surrounded, outnumbered and outgunned - they'd be massacred. Ukraine has so few lifers in its military, it can't afford to sacrifice these men. They need to leave the Crimea and begin realistic training for war, using live ammo, as well as do any number of show and tell demonstrations for the draftees showing up en masse.

Only after its military's preparations for armed conflict are complete will the Ukrainians be in a position to eject the Russians, if the government so chooses. Nobody knows what the Ukrainian government has decided, but assuming the general mobilization order isn't just rhetoric, the Ukrainians will take months to get fully ready to fight. Given that Uncle Sam took 6 months to get ready for Desert Storm, I'd expect a couple of months minimum, for Ukraine to get some of its professionals ready to mount hit-and-run raids into the Crimea against Russian patrols and outposts, based on intel gathered from loyal Crimeans, while having prepared defenses to ambush Russian units engaged in cross-border hot pursuit operations.

The moment the first martyrs to the cause appear in the headlines, there's a possibility that the Ukraine will finally be committed. After that, it's only a matter of time before the Russians leave. The earlier they leave, the lower the body count and financial expense on both sides.

15 posted on 03/06/2014 7:14:56 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: tcrlaf

Crimea is surrounded by area of 70%-80% Russian speakers I guess the Crimea’s food will all come by ship. I also not sure how well Russian speakers will be accepted in the Ukraine now.


16 posted on 03/06/2014 7:18:29 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: tcrlaf

Give up your guns and we’ll protect you...is what our government promised the Ukraine once upon a time.


17 posted on 03/06/2014 7:24:36 PM PST by Tzimisce
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To: Norm Lenhart
83...God was it so long ago? As if I didn’t feel old enough... ;)

It still doesn't seem that long to me. BTW, I still watch the same TV set we bought in early 1983 almost everyday since then.
18 posted on 03/06/2014 7:25:11 PM PST by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: tcrlaf

They’re “enemy combatants” eh? When do Obama’s drones take off?


19 posted on 03/06/2014 7:27:35 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Sarah Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: Zhang Fei
Folks in those bases *shouldn't* fight; they're a tripwire force provisioned for peacetime. They're completely surrounded, outnumbered and outgunned - they'd be massacred.

Agreed. Far better to walk away now and live to fight another day.
20 posted on 03/06/2014 7:39:37 PM PST by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: DesertRhino

In fact, May 25, the date that Ukrainians choose a new president, coincides with roughly the 3rd month of Russian occupation. If Ukrainians elect a war president, his taking office will coincide with the date that the Ukrainian military attains some semblance of war-readiness. During the Korean War, US forces were driven 200-odd miles south by a North Korean military armed with WWII surplus Russian equipment, and corralled inside the Pusan Perimeter. It was almost three months from the start of the war before the US was able to make advances against the North Koreans, starting with the landing at Inchon.


21 posted on 03/06/2014 7:42:13 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Nowhere Man

I graduated HS in 83. Seems like 2 lifetimes ago to me. I remember having hope for my/our future. Of course it helped having Reagan in charge...


22 posted on 03/06/2014 7:52:39 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Mike Darancette

When I was there in 2000, everyone spoke Russian, even the Ukrainians, so I’m not sure how you’d differentiate between them.


23 posted on 03/06/2014 7:52:52 PM PST by Bulwyf
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To: Tzimisce

“Lugar and Obama traveled together to Russia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan in August 2005 to oversee a number of Nunn-Lugar projects. In Ukraine they saw a conventional weapons facility that is typical of the focus of the new legislation.

The Lugar-Obama initiative is modeled after the Nunn-Lugar program that focuses on weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union. Lugar and former Senator Sam Nunn (D-GA) authored the program in 1991. It has provided U.S. funding and expertise to help the former Soviet Union safeguard and dismantle its enormous stockpiles of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, related materials, and delivery systems. Among many accomplishments, the program has deactivated 7,000 nuclear warheads and reemployed 58,000 scientists in peaceful research. Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan are nuclear weapons free as a result of cooperative efforts under the Nunn-Lugar program. They otherwise would be the world’s the third, fourth and eighth largest nuclear weapons powers, respectively.”

https://web.archive.org/web/20080617231047/http://obama.senate.gov/press/070111-lugar-obama_non


24 posted on 03/06/2014 8:22:15 PM PST by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: Bulwyf
When I was there in 2000, everyone spoke Russian, even the Ukrainians, so I’m not sure how you’d differentiate between them.

A lot similar to how throughout hundreds of years of revolts, both Irish guerrillas and British troops spoke English. In fact, during the American Revolution, both Patriots and Tories spoke English. Kuwait, like Iraq, was filled with Arabic speakers when it was invaded. Remarkable, isn't it?

25 posted on 03/06/2014 9:24:26 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“They’re “enemy combatants” eh? When do Obama’s drones take off?”

They would have to get off the TV, first.


26 posted on 03/06/2014 10:15:55 PM PST by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Thunder90

If Ukraine is waiting for foreign assistance in its defense then Ukraine is truly F#CKED.

The EU is not going to fight to keep the Crimea part of Ukraine or Ukraine from being made into a Russian colony to sooth Putin’s/Russia’s pride it is that simple . Doesn’t matter what slip of paper got signed or by who .


27 posted on 03/06/2014 10:30:32 PM PST by Nebr FAL owner
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To: Tzimisce

True & the Ukrainians were stupid enough to believe the promises of Western politicians . folks need to learn that politicians will promise anything but deliver nothing.


28 posted on 03/06/2014 10:36:32 PM PST by Nebr FAL owner
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To: Rashputin

“Ukrainian opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko slammed the plan, saying it would be illegitimate and unconstitutional.”

In 2010 after the presidential election, when she lost(45%) to Yanoukovich (48.5%), she refused to step down and recognize the result (verified by UE observers) of the election.
What is illegitimate and unconstitutional - is the deposition by violence of a leader legitimally and democratically elected.


29 posted on 03/06/2014 10:58:21 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Bulwyf

“everyone spoke Russian, even the Ukrainians”

The Ukrainian adopted the ridiculous habit of changing the vowels in the Russian words, replacing “a” and “o” by “i” and “y”. Kiev becomes Kiyv, Kharkov became Kharkiv, etc. Other than that, there are no differences.

I understand Russian, and lately I was amazed to discover that I understand “Ukrainian” as well.


30 posted on 03/06/2014 11:03:15 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Nebr FAL owner

“If Ukraine is waiting for foreign assistance in its defense then Ukraine is truly F#CKED.”

They should see what EU did to Greece and Portugal, 27% unemployed, pensions non-paid or cut in half, bank accounts heavily taxed, etc.


31 posted on 03/06/2014 11:09:15 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite; Bulwyf
Everyone spoke Russian and most still do because it was the language of the USSR and because Ukraine trades a lot with Russia and gets Russian media. But Ukranian and Russian are different languages, just as Spanish and Portugese are. Ukranian, Russian and Belorussian are descended from Old East Slavic the language of the Kievan Rus, at least in the South. Novgorod had another dialect of Eastern Slavic. Modern Russian is descended from both of these. Ukranian is descended from Old East Slavic, by way of Ruthenian along with considerable Polish influence and loanwords. Belorussian is quite similar. According to a family friend who teaches Slavic languages, Ukranian, Belarussian and Russyn are all modern dialects of Ruthenian. But Russian is a different language.

32 posted on 03/06/2014 11:40:32 PM PST by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: rmlew

“Ukranian and Russian are different languages, just as Spanish and Portugese are”

I wouldn’t go so far.
Ukrainian and Russian are much more similar than Spanish and Portugese.
If you use any Russian language translation software, it will work for Ukrainian and vice-versa.
The easy to see the difference: a letter that looks like an English ‘i’, with two dots over it, then it’s Ukrainian; if not , it’s Russian. Another difference: difference, is that in Ukrainian the ‘g’ sounds like an ‘h’.

Any Ukrainian undrstand Russian, as any Russian understand Ukrainian. Only the fierce nationalism in western Ukraine pushed to a differenciation in language.

One in three citizens of Ukraine is a native Russian language speaker.


33 posted on 03/07/2014 12:45:25 AM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: DesertRhino

Good salvage team can refloat water.....


34 posted on 03/07/2014 1:56:46 AM PST by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: rmlew

Oh, I know it’s a different language, I was just pointing out that most spoke Russian.

I noticed while there that you either had a BMW, a Mercedes, or a Lada. In other words, you were either connected to the mob or you weren’t.


35 posted on 03/07/2014 4:41:40 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: Bulwyf

I noticed that about the russians who moved into my area. Filthy rich and have superior air about them. Their children are snobs with no responsibilities. One feels lower than a worm around them. I avoid them.

Now I understand why. Their connections.


36 posted on 03/07/2014 8:04:15 AM PST by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: tcrlaf

They’re probably leaving thinking they’ll be replaced by US troops. And I hate to think that might be the case.


37 posted on 03/07/2014 8:19:12 AM PST by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: Nebr FAL owner

The American people keep trusting those same politicians....


38 posted on 03/07/2014 9:26:35 PM PST by Tzimisce
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To: 1_Rain_Drop
Among many accomplishments, the program has deactivated 7,000 nuclear warheads and reemployed 58,000 scientists in peaceful research. Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan are nuclear weapons free as a result of cooperative efforts under the Nunn-Lugar program. They otherwise would be the world’s the third, fourth and eighth largest nuclear weapons powers, respectively.”

Well if Ukraine still had nuclear weapons, I doubt Russia would try invading Crimea.

39 posted on 03/08/2014 3:37:15 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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Meanwhile in the United States, Obama in serious discussions with his travel agent.


40 posted on 03/08/2014 3:38:43 PM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Marguerite
What is illegitimate and unconstitutional - is the deposition by violence of a leader legitimally and democratically elected.

He wasn't deposed violently. He just fled the country and the duly elected parliament voted unanimously to remove him from office.

41 posted on 03/08/2014 3:39:54 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: Paleo Conservative

” He wasn’t deposed violently. He just fled the country and the duly elected parliament voted unanimously to remove him from office.”

You’ve just gobbled EVERYTHING the putschists from KIev said, and the American and European media repeated

Yanoukovich “didn’t fled the country”. He was on his way to Kharkov , when his car and his escort were shot at repeatedly. Yanukovich said he had only left Ukraine due to concerns about his safety: “Nobody has overthrown me. I was compelled to leave Ukraine due to a direct threat to my life and threats to my family.”

As for the “elected duly parliment”, it voted under duress with the armed Maidan militiamen surrounding the building. Lawmakers from Yanoukovich Party of the Regions were forced to fell on their knees and humiliated on Maidan Place. 55 of them were forced to vote for the destitution. It was far from being a regular vote. Besides the Ukrainian Parliment has NOT the power to depose the president, but only to vote his impeachment. The decision lies with the High Constitutional Court, but the putschistes closed it down!

Of course, you won’t hear the truth in the Western media, one have to make a lot of research on the internt to gather it and get the whole picture.


42 posted on 03/08/2014 4:35:46 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Paleo Conservative

February 24, 2014 - Massive brawl erupts in Kiev, Ukraine at Rada, the “duly elected” parliament

http://youtu.be/4bQZmnH36yo

How do you say in English - coup d’état?


43 posted on 03/08/2014 4:46:27 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite

“Stroke of state”.


44 posted on 03/08/2014 4:49:17 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

takeover of the political power using violent means.


45 posted on 03/08/2014 4:54:55 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite

Yes. Quite right.


46 posted on 03/08/2014 4:57:56 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: All

BBC February 22, 2014 - The duly elected ukrainian parliment

Fighting broke out between deputies in Ukraine’s parliament, when the speaker delayed a debate on a possible resolution calling for President Viktor Yanukovich’s powers to be reduced .The latest fighting followed scuffles, after which opposition leaders Vitali Klitschko and Arseniy Yatsenyuk addressed the parliament. One can see the nazi-svoboda deputies attacking the the others. Yarosh, the leader of the far-right coalition , is in the foreground.

http://youtu.be/U3nyWMMKp9g

February 26 Ukraine opposition leader (actually the idiot boxer who was “elected” the putchists’ president): “ We are ready to attack “

It was a coup d’etat. Nothing legitimate.
The Kiev president, prime minister and government are illegitimate.

http://youtu.be/hAnQYH5fiHo


47 posted on 03/08/2014 5:26:58 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: tcrlaf

Where are the enviromental waskos?
I don’t think the Russians sanitized that ship
before sinking it...


48 posted on 03/08/2014 5:32:29 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: All

January 21, 2014

The future putchists’ “president” of Ukraine, Vitali Klitschko is sprayed with powder from a fire extinguisher by violent protesters, who battled the Ukrainian security forces in unprecedented clashes on Maidan Square.

http://youtu.be/J6rE55RRvpI

Peaceful demonstrators, indeed.


49 posted on 03/08/2014 5:46:12 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: tcrlaf

Europe’s problem. Not in our backyard. US stay home don’t let Ukraine drain our treasury dry.


50 posted on 03/08/2014 5:50:53 PM PST by Ciexyz
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