Posted on 03/12/2014 1:06:43 PM PDT by Strategy
Russia could launch a 'full scale' invasion that would see troops overrun Ukraine in hours, a senior security official warned today.
The secretary of Ukraine's National Security and National Defence Committee Andriy Parubiy claimed Russia has 80,000 troops, 280 tanks and 170 aircraft massed on the border ready to invade.
'They are adding to this military potential,' he said. 'We have a critical situation on the entire southeastern border. The Russian army is only two to three hours from Kiev.'
Ukraine's defences would be incapable in the face of a Russian invasion, he said.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
I very much appreciate the news being posted. It can be taken for granted that ALL “news” on Ukraine (or just about anything) is slanted from every single source; some more and some less.
Caww and others like Marguerite are not taking the Russian side. It amazes me that so many here are so wilfully blind that they can’t stand news that doesn’t support their own biases. That’s not what FR used to be. Caww and others did a heroic job when the Tamarod rebellion was active in Egypt - an incredible job.
There is NO “good” side in the Ukraine situation, except the people who you never read about, who are victims. Reminds me of Treebeard, when asked whose side he was on:
“I’m not on anyone’s side, because no one is on my side.”
What is important is truth; whether it supports peoples’ fondly held biases or not.
I agree. It’s just a sentiment Putin’s tapped into.
You’d listen to Goebbels and say you were in search of the truth. Putin and his news media exist not to tell the truth but to conduct propaganda campaigns.
Then report the whole story! You're celebrating and justifying murder. The "pro-Russian" demonstrators broke through a police barricade to attack people. Would you like it then if your enemies, the Ukrainians, weren't allowed to protest at all? This is pure madness and celebration of death as it happens!
Of course the Pro-Russian people surrounded them...they “invaded” their gathering with the intent to disrupt it. Their turf!
Do you even comprehend what you are saying? Does Donetsk belong to Putin already where it is okay to murder "outsiders" as they please?
Do you really think the same would not have happened had the Pro-Russian people gone to Kiev and opposed the Euromaidens there? Come on...I can’t believe you’d be so nieve.
Naive for not thinking it odd to think it be... I don't know... and injustice to murder someone just because they protested in a particular city? This is madness!
Nonsense. We are talking about a protest in which Pro-Moscow "demonstrators" broke through a police barricade and killed someone, not to mention the injuries. And we have people on here declaring that, 'Well, they had it coming" and "well, they were on THEIR 'turf'". This is nonsense and a celebration of criminal behavior. You don't need to be pro or anti Russian dictatorship to appreciate the vileness of such a declaration. I don't care if it is an Pro-Obama protestor carrying an abortion sign infront of a bunch of conservatives. You will NOT hear me justifying one group pushing through cops and killing people!
I’ll also add that these “Pro-Russian Demonstrators” might not have even been from Ukraine at all, as Putin has been bussing people in from Russia for awhile now; and these freaks, who were celebrating beneath a statue of Lenin, allegedly have the accent of the Russian speakers of Russia proper.
“The video shows Russians with the accents of those from the Russian Federation, not Ukraine, attacking a group of pro-EuroMaidan activists. They shout “Russia! Russia!” and “Where is your Ukraine?!”. Using one of the worst insults in the region, they cry “Pederasts! Pederasts!” and then “On your knees! On your knees!” in a constant chant.”
More at link: http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-24-russia-mobilizes-near-the-border/#0449
“Caww and others like Marguerite are not taking the Russian side. It amazes me that so many here are so wilfully blind that they can’t stand news that doesn’t support their own biases. That’s not what FR used to be.”
I’ve been always taking the side of the TRUTH. As the saying goes “Facts are stubborn”. The truth is misrepresented in the West and East political and media propaganda since ... ever. One can find it in the ancient Egypt reporting of Ramses war with the Hittites and Herodot’s writings ... In order to find it, one must read and recoup stark facts and data from ALL sides.
I don’t believe in the manicheism approach “we good, them bad” and vice-versa. In my lifetime I’ve witnessed enough occurences when the bad side ended being the good and the good much more bad than the bad.
I’m sorry to realise that some FReepers are stuck in the past and the Cold war hysterical propaganda. For decades we’ve been told that the Soviet Union will attack the West. IT NEVER HAPPENED. The Soviet Union is no more, Russia is not Soviet Union, and Putin is neither Hitler, nor Stalin. He’s a tough leader of a huge country, and he considers First his country’s interst.
The unrest and the coup d’état in Kiev put in jeopardy the sort of Russia’s navy bases in the Black Sea and he’s been securing it! The US would do the same if the same happened to one of its military base. Besides, Ukraine, a multinational country is on Russia’s turf, not the United States’. The better thing is that the US and Russia mind their own business and not interfere in each other’s side of the Atlantic pond.
Be on standby to blow the pipeline if they come in.
“these “Pro-Russian Demonstrators” might not have even been from Ukraine at all, as Putin has been bussing people in from Russia for awhile now”
Utter nonsense. It’s enough to check out the Donetsk ethnic population to realise that that’s utter bullshit.
The city of Donetsk was founded in 1869 in the South-East part of Tzarist Russian Empire as the capital of a coal-mining region.
The main current nationality structure of the Donetsk: Russians: 493,392 people, 48.15%, Belarusians: 11,769 people, 1.15%, Ukrainians: 478,041 people, 46.65%.
The Russian language is dominant; even the ethnic Ukrainians consider Russian as their first language.
The Donetsk province gave Victor Yanukovych 90% of the votes in the 2010 elections; so it’s no wonder that they took in hardly the putsch in Kiev and find Yanukovich demise and the Maidan-government illegitimate.
“I very much appreciate the news being posted. It can be taken for granted that ALL “news” on Ukraine (or just about anything) is slanted from every single source; some more and some less.
Caww and others like Marguerite are not taking the Russian side. It amazes me that so many here are so wilfully blind that they can’t stand news that doesn’t support their own biases.”
Thank you.
"Busloads of People Are Coming From Across the Border of Russia, Armed With Bats"
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116960/letter-donetsk-not-pro-russia-its-menaced-russian-tourists
From the other link:
"16:48 In Yalta, people with Russian flags burst into a Pro-Ukrainian protest and attacked the peaceful protesters with Ukrainian attributes.
Around 50 young men with Russian Federations flags and shouts of, “Russia!” and “Fascism will not pass!” first surrounded the peaceful protesters, and then pushed them off the stage and occupied it.
They came to the protest by the fountain from another, pro-Russian meeting, says an eyewitness.
A short fight started, but nobody suffered grave injuries. The fight resumed as of 16:40.
Yalta citizens with blue-and-yellow flags are ribbons are not leaving and are standing by the booth.
There are not many people, the atmosphere is tense. Some women are crying.
The locals are convinced that the attackers are Russian. Among the people bearing Russian flags are some men in Kuban Cossack dress.– pravda.com.ua"
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-24-russia-mobilizes-near-the-border/#0449
How many Ukrainians dress like Cossacks?
From the same link from above, Russkie protestor determined to prove he's local, a tweet:
"suspicions in Donetsk, pro-Russia man who interrupted a presser w a bullhorn insisted 1st on showing journos his ID, to prove he's local"
More Cossacks coming in:
"Armed groups of Cossacks from across the area are flocking to the disputed region to help Moscow wrest it from Ukraine in hopes they'll be rewarded by being integrated into Russia's primary security apparatus after the takeover is complete"
http://time.com/22125/ukraine-crimea-cossacks-russia/ The Donetsk province gave Victor Yanukovych 90% of the votes in the 2010 elections; so it’s no wonder that they took in hardly the putsch in Kiev
Russian propaganda to make us believe that every ethnic Russian in Donetsk is pro-Kremlin take over and violence. The first article addresses this question. I'd rather see a poll of something like "Yes, we agree with the Russian tourists who are doing the killing in the streets and want to join the dictatorship under Putin." Until then, the Putinistas have zero credibility in their claims.
You're blowing up what's left of your credibility with stuff like this. This is the language of a propagandist for the Kremlin, not a disinterested party just reporting on the facts.
No it's not, unless by the "truth is the other way around" you mean "Yes, the Russians are sending in tourists and cossacks to stir up trouble in order to pave the ground for a justified invasion of Eastern Ukraine."
Bus-loaded Ukrainians came from Western Ukraine to Donetsk to cry their support for the Maidan-government.
Evidently the buses were full, which was why a lot of the protestors were unable to escape. Does not stand to reason that, if they arrived by bus, they could not all fit back into it again. Unless the report is only thinking of one bus, and maybe there were more that they simply couldn't escape to?
"The EuroMaidan activists link arms in a tight circle and try to dodge flash grenades and mace spray, then riot police encircle them with arms linked, while a policeman radios a report that 10 people have been injured. The EuroMaidan demonstrators try to take cover near a bus that is already packed with people. Somehow, the Russian rioters get around the riot police cordon, and start cracking heads with iron rods or bats."
(From the live-thread link posted previously)
Here's a personal account of someone who was there and receiving the assault. He does not claim to be non-local:
"“For the first time in my life I breathe gas — everyone was coughing, choking, and trying to get out. There was NOWHERE to run. You get out — they tear you apart, if you stay, you choke. We open the door — they “greet” us. I get a kick to the head — my luck, to the side, although a concussion still. We run behind the bus and form a tight circle of about 30 people in a bunch. All around, they shout ‘on your knees!’ and some of us are on our knees anyway; in order to reduce the area of attack, we crouched on our heels, covering our heads with our hands. I’m afraid of letting a blow or a stone through, I realize that if I cut out, they could crush us. The police can barely hold back the enraged crowd, they themselves do not want to suffer retaliation.
They constantly try to drag us out of the circle so it is more convenient to beat us — we hold tight to each other. I look at the police — there is no help there, I see that a window toward Ilyich Avenue has opened up and I make a fast lunge through (in fact I can barely move my legs, running from gangsters in my own city!), I am not running alone, several others have broken through.”
(Same link as above)
So the buses arrived with blown out windows from which men with bloodied faces exited from, dummy?
08 Mar 2014
The Telegraph’s Damien McElroy explained why so many had gathered to express their anger at the new leaders of Ukraine:
“The people here have rallied because their leader Pavel Gubarev, who declared himself the people’s governor during the week, has been arrested and taken to Kiev.
“They want him released, they call him a political prisoner and they say that their rights are being abused by the revolutionaries who have taken over the government”
The protests in industrial cities, such as Donetsk, that rely on Russia for trade and whose cultural roots lie closer to Moscow than Kiev came as Kremlin-backed troops tightened their grip on Ukraine’s flashpoint peninsula of Crimea.
The predominantly Russian-speaking southern and eastern regions of the Ukraine have been in upheaval since three months of deadly protests brought new pro-European leaders to power in Kiev whom they view with disdain and mistrust.
Watch video at the above link
From his Wikipedia profile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Gubarev
Pavel Yurevich Gubarev (Russian: Павел Юрьевич Губарев, born 10 February 1983) is a pro-Russian political figure in Ukraine. Though not a player in local politics, Gubarev was allegedly "elected" the "People's Governor" of the Donetsk Region at the Regional Assembly on 3 March 2014 after pro-Russian protesters seized the building. Gubarev was later arrested by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) on 6 March for advocating separatism and illegal seizure of power. He faces up to ten years in prison.[1] Biography[edit]
Gubarev is a graduate of history department of the Donetsk National University. He worked as an advertising executive at a local firm in Donetsk.
He was a member of the Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, a pro-Russian, leftist party based in the southeast of the country.[1] According to an unnamed acquaintance, Gubarev "believes in unity for the Slavic people, it's an issue he has thought about a lot".[1]
Since the beginning of the 2014 Crimean crisis, Gubarev has led pro-Russian protesters who blockaded and occupied the Donetsk Regional Administration building.
During a press-conference with journalists on March 6, 2014 his main message as a self-proclaimed governor was: referendum on the territorial status of Donetsk Oblast and non-recognition of the Kiev authorities and the central government's appointed governor, oligarch Serhiy Taruta.[2] On March 6, 2014, Gubarev was arrested by the Security Service of Ukraine.[3] Following his arrest, Gubarev was reportedly taken to Kiev for detention.[4]
Since Februry 23d bloody coup d'état in Kiev and the installement of the illegitimate "president and government" composed solely of right-wing and nationalistic Western Ukrainians, the Eastern Ukraina regions, Russophiles and Russophones (more than 80% of the population speak Russian), who massively voted for Yanukovich in 2010, consider themselves in danger from an anti-Russian central regime, which the FIRST decision was to ban Russian as official regional language. This decision put Eastern Ukraine on fire. Dozens of thousands descended in the streets, demonstrating their attachment to their language and historical ties with Russia, which remains their main economic partner.
When Vitali Klitschko, the boxer to be presidential candidate, tried to go and speak in Donetsk, he was chased away by the demonstrators.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10686434/Ukraine-crisis-Vitali-Klitschko-kept-away-from-Donetsk-by-pro-Russian-protesters.html
Sergey A. Taruta, a whealty oligarch, appointed new governor by the Kiev Maidan-gubmint, ordered the police to squash pro-Russia rallies. So far, he hasn't succeded...
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