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To: drypowder; onyx; Jim Robinson; JRandomFreeper; greeneyes; Kartographer; B4Ranch; Old Sarge; All
“...how electronic voting and vote counting machines remain to be a serious problem.”

I don't agree it is a serious problem. A system of security measures for voting machines and checking them for accuracy before they are deployed to voting precincts are written in the election code of every state.

It works this way in Texas:
The Secretary of State, elections division, approves which companies’ machines the state may use and each county determines which company within that group, they will use. After the Florida fiasco between Bush and Gore, the federal government began a program to help pay for voting machines for any state/county that wanted to change to machines instead of paper ballots. Most Texas counties used that offer from the feds to change to machines and I'm sure other states did the same. Paper ballots may still be used by some counties who have a small population.

If laws regarding the machines are followed, the machines are secure and recording votes properly.
1. Machines are kept in a locked room/facility when not in use.
2. Before early voting starts in every county, the Republican and Democrat county chair meets with the election administrator, and each machine is checked for accuracy - in other words they vote on the machines and totals on the machines are checked for accuracy.

A word about voting machines: They cannot hook to the internet - they are dumb machines that count votes and that's it. The internal tape that records votes cannot be changed by an election judge/clerk.

3. When the machines are checked for accuracy by the two county chairs and election administrator, the machines are again locked in a room with two locks. The election administrator has one and the sheriff has the other. The room cannot be opened without both keys being used. On election day morning, the sheriff or his deputies deliver the machines to each voting precinct.

Not long ago I read an article about how machines can be changed so they are not safe. Well, the machines that were changed, were left in a hall where anyone could do anything to them and that is what these men did to show they weren't safe. The machines were open for anyone to do anything to them. That wasn't a machine fault, that was the officials’ fault who left them out in the open which is a violation of law.

When the machines are delivered to a poling place early on election day, the election judge and alternate judge (alternate will be of the opposing party of the judge), check each machine to make sure they are set at zero. If one or more were not set at zero, that machine(s) would be removed as it would mean someone voted on that machine already.

At the end of election day, the judge and alternate judge remove the device from every machine that has the totals of the voting. In the guts of the machine there is another record of the voting but neither the judge/alternate judge can get to those totals. Only a tech from the company can open that part of the machine. Later, if there is a question about the totals, the tech can remove that extra copy.

Now, the judge and alternate judge carry those devices to the central counting station. They may be in one car or two cars, but also along with them, must be the sheriff or a deputy to follow the car(s) to central counting. This is to ensure nothing happens to those results in transit.

A little story: Years ago in that county, when Democrats ruled the county and there was little to no security of elections, a Democrat judge had the totals of his precinct and decided to go have dinner with his friends before he took the results to central counting in the courthouse. No one in central counting knew where he was, so the results of that election could not be determined until he decided to go to central counting after his dinner party with his friends.

Central counting must report totals to the Secretary of State at certain times but no totals (except early voting) could be called in since they didn't have the totals from that precinct. The Secretary of State's office was angry at no totals coming in and central counting was angry because they were stuck until that judge showed up. But, the judge had a great dinner.

4. In Texas, both parties are represented in central counting (due to a law my husband wrote). The procedure is written in that law and must be followed. There may be a representative from the company who developed those machines, present in case there is a glitch with the counting machine or there because the election administrator asked one to come because he/she did not feel capable of performing his/her central counting duties correctly.

That is the Texas system and if you are worried about machines in your state, all you have to do is go to your Secretary of State's website where there will be a link to your state's election code that spells out the system used for security of your voting machines and the totaling at central counting on election night.

You see, someone just doesn't say, “Oh, let's have an election - do anything you want.” Every state has laws determining how elections are to be held and how security is maintained. Until you read their system, you don't know how machines are secured or elections are held in your state/county. If you are still worried, talk to your Republican County Chair about your concerns and he/she can tell you about machine security in your county. Don't believe what you read about some voting machine somewhere that was corrupted so the machine company must be at fault. It is much more likely that county did not follow the law to provide security for that machine or machines.

There is something in this posted article that says paper tape from a machine or machines were found in the trash outside the building. All tapes are to be kept but the fact some or all were tossed after the election isn't the end of the world. It was also said the tape totals didn't match the results given to the public. Well, other numbers at central counting would be added to a voting machine tape from a counting machine - early voting including mail in ballots and the number of Provisional Ballots. Finding paper tape with voting numbers in the trash would not immediately mean to me that voting machines had been violated/changed/manipulated. The official who dumped those tapes probably needs to be schooled in her/his job.

12 posted on 03/16/2014 11:06:19 AM PDT by Marcella ((Prepping can save your life today.))
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To: Marcella

If there are corrupt election officials, and collusion their can be cheating. Those ballots with hanging chads were the pits, so it’s good that they be replaced.

Our county uses paper ballots that use color in the dots, and then a machine counts them. I like that, because push come to shove, John Q citizen can see with their own eyes if they happened to be part of the recount team.

However, we are a small town, and it wouldn’t be that bad to recount by hand. Not sure it is practical in larger cities.


14 posted on 03/16/2014 12:37:48 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: Marcella
You're dreaming a very naive dream. I'm sure you're proud of you're husband's law. The security laws are frequently not followed. But the machines can easily be hacked by a person in the County, and that's where the danger lies. Stalin said that it doesn't matter who votes, only who counts the votes. Lack of internet connectivity is irrelevant. No Chinese hacking team will be able to throw an election, but they aren't the ones interested in it anyway. And having “both parties” present as judges doesn't mean a thing because $. And the internet connectivity point is false anyway, because the computers that count these machines’ votes are usually online, just a computer in a County office.

California Secretary of State Debra Bowen, on the day of her election, assembled a committee of security experts and computer scientists to certify voting machines. Not one could be certified. So with an election coming up, they certified the ones we use; they at least have a paper ballot that's marked directly by the voter. Typically a recount runs those back through the machine again, making that vulnerable too, but at least there's a paper copy. Unfortunately, those get destroyed. Also, Humboldt County discovered that the Central Tabulator's delete key would instantly delete a precinct without confirmation and without a line in any report mentioning that! Lookee there, ma, San Francisco's plumb disappeared!

You also mentions paper tapes being found in the trash. So what? those are worthless. You have a machine, you press “Abraham”, and it shows you Lincoln, but the internal, invisible tape records that Benedict Arnold got a vote. The minute you voted it was changed, and there's no record anywhere of the truth (except in the voter's mind). For the same reasons, only hardcopy paper ballots can be recounted, and can PROVE their accuracy. And in Florida it's illegal to use a machine that produces a hard copy. That horribly Democrat state doesn't want honest elections (oh, wait…they're Republicans there).

The 2000 Florida election was thrown, sure by the Supremes, but also there were batches of punch cards that were manufactured mis-registered so the “hanging chad” problem was created; the punches didn't quite line up with the holes. That paper is cut to really strict standards, but seven employees of Boise Cascade, including some line workers and the company controller came forward and revealed a mysterious order printed on inferior stock from an unauthorized source (and they laughed that they had put xeroxed Boise labels on the rolls); these went to two counties in Florida. So obviously there desire to throw elections is strong in some folks. E-voting machines make this infinitely easier.

I have a friend that has designed a few industrial computers, and those were made for easy field programming; not just of the customer's operation, but the operating system itself. He was shocked to see the Diebold machines had three different ways to change any part of their software in the field. He told me if he was designing a system to be insecure, that's exactly what he'd do except that it costs more for three where one would do. And the cases were locked by your standard suitcase key, meaning they are all the same. And if you didn't have that, about six screws got you in. And MIT demonstrated a card: set the machine up at the poll, open a door and insert the card, start the machine, stop the machine, remove the card and shut the door, then watch votes that look right come out flipped (not all of them, only enough). What was Diebold thinking? Well, the President of the company DID say, publicly, that he would do anything in his power to hand Ohio to the Republicans.

Exit polling in a Russian election differed from the results enough (like about 3%) that a new election was called. In the US that's ignored. Yet in a Florida e-vote (I think in 2010) a candidate who was not known by anyone and had never campaigned, won by something like 21,000 votes over his popular rival, and the exit poll disagreed by over 50%. crickets.

There's a ton of more things wrong with it and it amazes me that no one cares. Internet voting is even worse, and vote-by-mail is equally stupid.

The Princeton (sorry, not MIT) video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZws98jw67g

A Diebold whistleblower; Diebold did throw an election and paid 27 million for it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_rMpQKqZhM

And Fox news misses the most important point of all, seen in video above, that the programming can be carried in a card that takes no time to install:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4FPuLNjvAc

Voter fraud and voter ID are totally small potatoes (and don't really happen much) compared to throwing a whole precinct or state, which has happened a lot.

15 posted on 03/21/2014 8:02:35 AM PDT by drypowder
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