Skip to comments.Russia, Putin, Ukraine: Some Background
Posted on 03/18/2014 9:10:05 PM PDT by varmintman
I'm not the world's foremost expert on Russia... But I believe I know enough to at least try to clear up a few of the misconceptions I see on forums and have been listening to on talk radio for the past few weeks.
A bit of Russian history for starters... Slavic farmers invited Vikings (Verangians) into what you'd now call Russia and set up the Kievan state which adopted Christianity around 988 AD so that the territory controlled by the city of Kiev was the dominant power in Russia prior to the Mongol invasion in 1236. In other words, they'd fought Polovyetski/Cumins and other nomad tribes to a sort of a standstill which appeared to be a workable state of affairs and then they got run over by a military avalanch and an empire whose military technology was 300 years ahead of the rest of the world.
Russia spent the next 140 years or so under the "Mongol Yoke" before the princes of Moscow managed to win a huge battle over the Golden Horde at Kulikovo in 1380, only to have the white and golden hordes unite a couple of years later and plow Russia under foot again where she would have remained for another century or two, nonetheless shortly thereafter Tamerlane came through and annihilated the Golden Horde. Unlike the situation with Genghis Khan who had utterly competent heirs, Tamerlane's empire began to crumble shortly after his death in the first few years of the 1400s, leaving much of Russia a sort of a shambles and Southern Russia what was called "wild fields". Jews living in what had been the remains of the Khazar kingdom prior to that time finally had enough and started moving to Poland and Germany and for a period of a century or so until Russia started to get organized again, Poland and Lithuania began to look like serious countries on maps. In those days, the Ukraine was part of Poland and one of the biggest if not THE biggest celebrations there ever was in the Ukraine was when Russia took it over in the 1700s.
The Ukrainian language is basically the language of the principality of Kiev while modern Russian is basically the language of the principality of Suzdal and the city of Moscow. At some point, the languages of the various places which comprised Russia must have fused, which is presumably why you have more than one system for verb formations and declension endings. The difference between Russian and Ukrainian is similar to the difference between our English and Chaucer's and anybody in the Ukraine who isn't retarded can speak Russian.
The city of Moscow featured the most paranoid design for a city in the history of the world, basically a system of concentric rings, each more difficult to break into than the last. That is because up to a very late date, Crimean Tatars, remnants of the Golden Horde, used to ride into the city as far as they could get, capture children and stuff them into baskets on their horses and ride off to sell them so that the word "Slav" morphed into "slave". The fact that any Crimean Tatars remain alive at all strongly indicates that Russians are an unusually tolerant people, less given to holding grudges than most.
The official title of the tsars was "Tsar of all the Russias", meaning primarily 'Great Russia' (Russia), 'White Russia' (Belorus), and 'Little Russia' (Ukraine). That is the heart of the Slavic Orthodox world and Ukraine is the breadbasket of that world. The Ukraine could feed everybody from the Volga to the Atlantic and that in fact was Hitler's plan; the idea was to build a super-gauge train to haul foodstuffs from Ukraine to Europe and, as I read it at least, to get Western Europe pretty much out of the food business altogether.
"Early plans for routes considered India and Vladivostok as the ultimate goals of the railways, but [b][i][size=150]by 1943 the planning was focused exclusively on European cities. Ukraine and the Volga Basin were seen as especially important targets, as these areas were viewed as the future granaries of the Nazi empire[/size][/i][/b], potentially through the "settlement strings". orSiedlungsperlen of the proposed Wehrbauer settlements within the conquered Lebensraum territories, which would also be linked by the planned easternmost reaches of theReichsautobahn freeway network....."
But you get the idea. The idea that anybody should have expected Vladimir Putin to just sit there and watch George Soros, Monsanto, and the US state department to just walk off with the Ukraine is idiotic. For that matter, the Crimea had been part and parcel of Russia for at least a couple of centuries before Khrushchev gifted it to Ukraine in 1954; it didn't seem to make much difference when everybody was a citizen of the CCCP one way or other, but expecting Russia to just let go of he Crimea under present circumstances is doubly stupid.
Moreover, there is a very big problem with language convergence. Television and the Internet are radically shrinking the world. TV has in fact killed the Southern accent in Texas so that I hear it only amongst people over 60; I expect TV and the internet to kill most of the world's languages in the next 30 years. My guess would be that languages which will still be in use by 2050 will include:
Basically, Ukrainian is a dead language walking and the idiots who just took over Kiev know that, which accounts for at least some of their irrational behavior. Ukraine has a border with Russia, their culture is tied up with that of Russia, and Russian is the main language of those which will survive, with which they are most familiar. My money says that in 20 years, Ukrainian will be spoken only amongst people over 60. The future of the Ukrainian people clearly lies with Russia.
That brings up an obvius question: what are the people in the US state department smoking? What did they expect to see happen?? Another question is, what reasons could there be for wanting to start a major war over any of this stuff?
A century or two ago the reasons for starting wars were simple: Gold, land, women, treaties... That stuff was heinous enough but it was at least comprehensible. In today's world, unfortunatley, you have to at least consider the most paranoid possibility i.e. that the LaRouche group may be right and that the idiots may actually have in mind to start a nuclear war to reduce the human population of the planet to less than one billion as per their stated ideology, for the glory of Gaea.
It turns out the sniper killings around Kiev a month ago were the work of the hoodlums WE are supporting, and not that of Yanukovich or Russians:
We have now seen two of these false-flag ops in the past six months (Syria and Kiev). At some point, the world has seen this **** one too many times and gets wise to it, and starts to look on Americans as a bunch of lunatics. It's hard not to get the idea that somebody in the US State Department is trying to start a major war.
Aside from that, the world can clearly see that Vladimir Putin is the best Ruler Russia has ever had since Tsar Peter, and that Bork Obunga is just as clearly the worst ruler any advanced state has ever had since Nero and may in fact be WORSE than Nero since I don't view Bork as being bright enough to play a fiddle. More likely we'll get to listen to rap while America burns.
Vladimir Putin is the main force responsible for bringing the global warming lunatics into global disrepute and disrepect. Putin apparently got a number of Russia's best hackers in a room and said something like "Guys, I'm not gonna wreck Russia's economy over a bunch of bullshit, I want you to blast your way into that East Anglia Email Database and spread to the four winds whatever you might find there", and they did that:
In other words, aside from needing to learn how to pronounce the guy's name properly, commentators like Limbaugh and Hannity need to understand that Putin is primarily responsible for their not needing to rub sticks together to make fire.
I mean, how many times does that make that Russia has bailed our hiney's out of some really awful kind of ****? Picture living in a world in which Sweden was a major power, i.e. picture yourself cruising in a 57 Volvo:
Guy a half mile up the road had one of those when I was a teenager. The thing was so ugly that just having it parked at the curb reduced housing values within a three-block radius. Tsar Peter saved us from that ****:
I EXPECT libtards and demoKKKrats to be clueless; it's painful to listen to stupid **** coming from right of center commentaters like Limbaugh and Hannity. Again they should start by at least learning to pronounce the guy's name properly:
"vla-DEE-mir POO-Tin" The accent is on the second syllable in Vladimir and nobody swallows a T or pronounces it like a D in Russia.
There is a question of communism in the picture and the thing you have to grasp is that the Soviet state had an absolute monopoly on weapons under the CCCP so that there was no possibility of the people ever rising up and overthrowing that system. That system fell because the people running it finally realized it couldn't work and gave it up. There is zero possibility of Russia going back to socialism or communism.
They ARE however going back to their original Christian roots and aside from building some 200 Christian churches in and around Moscow, they have actually rebuilt that gigantic cathedral which the commies tore down and made into a swimming complex:
Aside from all of that, Putin and the people around him have clearly taken a hard look at the ongoing suicide of the West and determind that Russia is not going to participate in any of that happy horse-****. Not allowing gays to recruit or prosylitize in schools or allowing girl bands to desecrate a church are signs of a recovered righteousness.
I mean, if I've missed anything or left anything important out here or gotten anything wrong, somebody let me know, but this is the picture I'm seeing. I don't see anything not to like with Putin or the vision of the current Russian government.
Putin may very well have started out as a believe in Communism and the Soviet Union, but I see more someone who came to appreciate the writings of Solzhenitsyn.
Contrast with Soviet days, Solzhenitsyn is now required reading in Russian schools....and Solzhenitsyn tried to warn the West, that it was facing destruction from their decadence if they didn’t change their ways.
enough is enough
just sign up for obamacare and vote democrat STRAIGHT ticket with a gay heart
The gay ideology is now the ideology of the U.S. Kerry and Biden thought the Soviets were just peachy. Now they don’t.
A good summary of Russian history. Russians have a sense of having their own civilization, which doesn’t owe anything to any one else. While Russia has emerged from Communism in reasonably good shape - perestroika is a process that will take decades to complete. Dismantling the totalitarian system was the easy part but building a modern, humane and civilized society is very difficult.
Middle class Russians want a society with European values and having the kind of life people in the West have with the freedoms that go along with it. But other Russians fear too fast change and these people are Putin supporters. Its the typical divide between well-educated urban people and working class people in the small towns and countryside.
There are two Russias and while they both agree on Crimea there is hardly a consensus between them on anything else. And with a corrupt and inefficient political system, its remarkable that anything at all actually gets done. And reforming this system is an uphill undertaking. Putin’s policies have not really addressed where Russia needs to go in the future.
Kerry should do well negotiating with Russia, seeing as how he know “Jengus” Khan so well. And he has personal experience with cutting off ears and wiring up genitals and such. Also pushes the joys of abortion and gay marriage. That’s a resume that’ll impress the hell out of Putin.
The thing is, Putin knows he has to walk a fine line between those distinct two groups of Russians.
If Putin allowed Ukraine to go completely independent and take Crimea with it, Putin would have been run out of Moscow.
Ooops you forgot Stalin.
In October 1917, the Bolshevik Revolution gave birth to the deadliest ideology in history - Communism. In less than 100 years, Communism has claimed more than 100 million victims.
A free people cannot afford to forget the evils and the costs of Communism. We must no allow the atrocities of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, and Castro to fade into the background of history. We must not forget the trail of blood and tears this utopian deception has left behind. How:
The Bolsheviks murdered their way into power...
Lenin destroyed hundreds of thousands of Cossacks...
The Kremlin starved to death more than six million in Ukraine...
Mao murdered tens of millions of Chinese peasants during his "Great Leap Forward"...
Ho Chi Minh sent 850,000 Vietnamese to their graves in "education camps"...
Castro buried dissenters in the infamous Isle of Pines...
The student voices of freedom were silenced at Tiananmen Square in Beijing...
The former hate his guts and creating a middle class is not what you want to do when you’re an autocrat.
Putin gets most of his support from small town and rural Russia.
Putin started out a liberal and fell back on Russian nationalism because that was the most effective means of mobilizing support for him and his policies.
But should the economy turn south, the mass street protests could reignite and his days in power could be numbered.
Ooops poster forgot this.
Ukraine existed before Russia.
That is just a fact.
Kiev was never Russian.
It is like saying the United States existed before England.
And London is an American State or City.
The differences between Russian and Ukrainian are the differences between Spanish and Italian.
Other than this temporary small echo baby boom Russia is in population decline. Russian is as dead as Portuguese.
That is some serious ball washing.
Even for a Putinista.
That’s just it, people want to think he’s Hitler, when in reality his grip on power is much more tenuous than most people realize.
In fact, one could look at this as similar to Galtieri invading the Falklands, sure temporarily it caused all Argies to rally around him, and even if the Argies prevailed, eventually the novelty would wear off when the economy raised its ugly head.
IMHO, Putin is just applying the Russian version of the Monroe Doctrine. If I'm right, then Putin is a Russian James Monroe.
But suppose Putin later on sees the Baltic states as a threat, when there is no threat. And then suppose Putin decides to absorb the Baltic states back into Russia. Then Putin is a Russian Napoleon or a Russian Hitler (take your pick).
Time will tell.
Of course, Putin doesn’t have to deal with a Thatcher, like Galtieri did.
Impressive post! Thanks for writing it. I learned a lot.
I believe starting the 70s gays began an concerted effort to infiltrate the most important institutions, media, political, and education. And we were asleep at the switch until it was too late.
WOW, a phenomenal bunch of revisionist Russian history.
IE a bunch of bullshit.
Why is it that you putin bootlickers keep pushing this?
I like the way he talks. We’re much alike, exactly ten years apart in age.
He is blunt, cold, confident and decisive. He’s not the kind of guy who wears his feelings on his sleeve.
But you can be in no doubt about where he stands.
The Russian Federation has a highly centralized political system, with power increasingly concentrated in the president, and a weak multiparty political system. The bicameral Federal Assembly consists of a lower house (State Duma) and upper house (Federation Council). Presidential elections in March featured accusations of government interference and manipulation of the electoral process. Security forces generally reported to civilian authorities; however, in some areas of the Northern Caucasus, there were serious problems with civilian control.
The most significant human rights problems during the year involved:
1. Restrictions of Civil Liberties: Following increased mobilization of civil society and mass demonstrations in reaction to elections, the government introduced a series of measures limiting political pluralism. During the year Russia adopted laws that impose harsh fines for unsanctioned meetings; identify nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) as foreign agents if they engage in political activity while receiving foreign funding; suspend NGOs that have U.S. citizen members or receive U.S. support and are engaged in political activity or pose a threat to Russian interests; recriminalize libel; allow authorities to block Web sites without a court order; and significantly expand the definition of treason. Media outlets were pressured to alter their coverage or to fire reporters and editors critical of the government.
2. Violations of Electoral Processes: Domestic and international observers described the presidential campaign as skewed in favor of the ruling partys candidate, Vladimir Putin. Procedural irregularities marred voting, with reports of vote fraud, administrative measures disadvantaging the opposition, and pressure on election monitoring groups. Several gubernatorial elections in October were likewise criticized.
3. Administration of Justice: Due process was denied during the detentions and trials of protesters arrested following the May 6 demonstration in Moscow in which a small group of the protestors engaged in violence; in the detention, trial, and sentencing of the members of the punk rock group Pussy Riot, who were charged with hooliganism motivated by religious hatred; and searches and criminal cases lodged against several political activists. Individuals responsible for the deaths of prominent journalists, activists, and whistleblowers, notably Sergey Magnitskiy, have yet to be brought to be brought to justice. Other problems reported during the year included: allegations of torture and excessive force by law enforcement officials; life-threatening prison conditions; interference in the judiciary and the right to a fair trial; abridgement of the right to privacy; restrictions on minority religions; widespread corruption; societal and official intimidation of civil society and labor activists; limitations on the rights of workers; trafficking in persons; attacks on migrants and select religious and ethnic minorities; and discrimination against and limitation of the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) persons.
The government failed to take adequate steps to prosecute or punish most officials who committed abuses, resulting in a climate of impunity. Rule of law was particularly deficient in the North Caucasus, where conflict among government forces, insurgents, Islamist militants, and criminal forces led to numerous human rights abuses, including killings, torture, physical abuse, and politically motivated abductions.
Useful idiots. Paid agents deserve respect, these are joe palookas.
We’re being overrun on FR.
Maybe they are paid agents. I have seen reports from Europe where Russian lackeys are active and have been identified on Internet forums.
Seriously!! Half of the fascist promoting putin bootlickers promote that jackass, the other half admire him.
WTH is going on around here?
“Ooops you forgot Stalin.”
Did you forget that Stalin wasn’t Russian?
Get back on here and defend the crap you’re smearing.
And Hitler wasn’t German.
Are you going to contribute to the discussion or just shut it down?
They should get a refund. Maybe it would work on other forums, but it’s just getting irritating here.
“Maybe they are paid agents. I have seen reports from Europe where Russian lackeys are active and have been identified on Internet forums.”
Who is paying you to spread discord on free republic?
Is there a single oblast in the Ukraine that is dominated by Russian speakers?
Putin has been in power since 2000. He was President from 2000 to 2008, PM from 2008-2012 (Putin actually was in charge using Medvedev as a puppet President because the Constitution prohibited him from a third term), and was elected President in 2012 for another 4 and probably 8 years.
Running a country for 14 years with a likely 6 more years in power is not exactly "tenuous." 20 years is a long run even for a dictator. And who is to say that Putin will not pull another rabbit out of the hat to extend his term beyond 20 years as either President or PM. Putin is a ruthless, corrupt dictator in the mold of previous Russian leaders from the Tsars, Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, etc.
I’m not shutting anything down.
I ask a simple question of all you fascist bootlickers....
why do you support it? why do you support an invasion of a sovereign nation?
You ran away from the question before, can you answer it now?
Seriously. You're going to discount Russia's history under Stalin?
And of course if Stalin is "Georgian" and not Russian, then it follows that Georgia, the country Putin invaded, and wants to control, is NOT Russian.
Americans for slavery! Shame, isn’t it. That’s the type that elected our current ruler, never mind the temporary confusion of these particular ones over the candidates - their idea is to support subjugation.
ping for later read.
It is a 53 page report. This is just a brief summary.
Who’s paying me? Thank you for asking. George Soros and Alex Jones.
All you Ukrainians, 80% of whom don't want to belong to us, belong to us.
“George Soros, Monsanto, and the US state department to just walk off with the Ukraine is idiotic.”
No evidence of that given...yet we know that economically, the Ukrainians are tired of a corrupt government and were willing to die to change it. You sound like you have bough the communist line their.
There is nothing to admire in Putin. He is a KGB thug who has somehow managed to acquire great wealth during his “reign”. He is a narcissistic fool running around pretending to save people from attacking tigers, etc. He is an unconvincing liar claiming that he is saving Crimea/Ukraine Russians from fascists as he invades a sovereign nation.
People may admire Putin because he is decisive, he knows how to use his power/influence. The same could be said for any number of powerful leaders - Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, etc.
Some minor errors, yes, but otherwise very good work. For instance, Malorossia is not exactly the same as Ukraine, actually it is the South-Eastern part of Ukraine, this is important: we may yet see a Malorossian state emerging from the ruins of Ukraine in its S-E part. And tracing Ukrainian to Kiev and Russian to Suzdal is an oversimplification.
Do you find being an idiot painful?
Who is supporting it? The voices in your head?
You want to people to respond to fabrications you are making up?
cool locomotive pics. look like they’d be a bit top heavy in a turn though.