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In short, unless Ukraine can normalize relations with Russia, it has little hope for growth.

This is the reality of Ukrainian survival - there is no way it can survive for long without Russia and Russia holds all the cards. Russia can afford to be patient and outwait Ukraine's present anti-Russian regime, for which it will seek to make life impossible. The bottom line is no solution to revive and stabilize Ukraine can work without Russian cooperation. If we don't get Russia on board, nothing will work.

1 posted on 03/19/2014 10:30:40 PM PDT by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop
If we don't get Russia on board, nothing will work.

That sounds very much like a tactic that is undergirded by a strategy of capitulation...

2 posted on 03/19/2014 10:40:52 PM PDT by AmericanExceptionalist (Democrats believe in discussing the full spectrum of ideas, all the way from far left to center-left)
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To: goldstategop

The title you appended was “How to get it right on Ukraine”.

I don’t see this article as offering solutions, so much as explaining why the problem isn’t solvable and saying that we can’t do much.

Ukraine needs prosperity to lure voters away from a Russian orientation, except no one is going to offer enough to help, and world bank loans would do more harm than good.

How can the west do much about Ukraine’s energy dependence, when Russia sells it there far below market rates.

Corruption must be solved, except it’s endemic and can’t be because the moneyed interests (Oligarch) are too strong. The article doesn’t get around to admitting that the previous government was just as corrupt as the Yanokovich one, which is why Tymoshenko lost the election.

I hope these events slap us and our allies awake to the idiocy of our energy policies. It’s an urgent national security issue that will cost us terribly the longer we wait to fix it.


7 posted on 03/20/2014 12:35:43 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: goldstategop

Believe it or not, there are precedents where countries made a break with Russia - Georgia, Baltic states - who have done it at a great cost and now can rightfully claim to be independent. Granted, they’re one tenth the size of Ukraine and Ukrainian integration with Russia is a bit deeper. I’m a bit hazy on the numbers but something like 25% of exports are going to Russia. It’s a big sacrifice for independence but it’s definitely doable, so I wouldn’t use the words “no way it can survive”.

If Russia chooses to break economic relations, she will not be endearing herself in the eyes of an average Ukrainian and the government will be too glad to blame economic hardships on Russia. Similar way that Hussein and Iranians fostered hatred against Americans in their countries when US imposed sanctions. Putin can roll the dice and see whether Ukrainians turn against the Kiev government or against Russia.

Breaking trade with Ukraine will carry economic costs to Russia as well, especially in the military industrial sector. For example, Ukraine is the main supplier of helicopter engines for Russian military. Russia would need to invest billions and start building their own. Or buy elsewhere, which may or may not be more expensive, and which may or may not fit their specs - either way, it couldn’t quit cold turkey.

Another card Ukraine has is the gas pipe. Despite North Stream, South Stream etc. Russia still carries MOST of its gas through Ukraine. Any gas price increases or disruptions will be countered by transit rate increases.

To sum up, Russia can definitely make a huge mess in Ukraine. But 1)there will be costs to Russia as well, and 2) IF she wins, she will win a huge mess. But to get that far, it will all depend on how much of a sacrifice Ukrainians are willing to make for their independence.


9 posted on 03/20/2014 8:20:40 AM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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