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Ukraine's Vitali Klitschko pulls out of presidential race
CNN ^ | March 29, 2014 | Louise Gumuchian and Victoria Butenko,

Posted on 03/29/2014 9:54:48 AM PDT by Navy Patriot

Boxer-turned-politician Vitali Klitschko on Saturday pulled out of the race for Ukraine's president, throwing his weight instead behind a billionaire businessman.....

Klitschko's withdrawal from the presidential race would set up a battle between confectionary businessman Poroshenko and Ukraine's former prime minister, Yulia Tymoshenko, in the May 25 elections. After more than two years in prison, Tymoshenko was released in February following Yanukovych's ouster, her archrival.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: klitschko; ukraine; ukrainecrisis; ukraineelection; yulia
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A billionaire President for the poor Democratic Republic of Ukraine?
1 posted on 03/29/2014 9:54:48 AM PDT by Navy Patriot
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To: Navy Patriot
To be sure, crony capitalism is a problem in Ukraine. Better than the Russian alternative however: here is the Donetsk, pro-Russian crowd standing under the statue of their hero Lenin, waving Communist flags:

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/various_uploads/skeet/Donetsk_Russia_Ukraine_13.jpg

2 posted on 03/29/2014 10:01:22 AM PDT by FBD
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To: Navy Patriot

Putin’s got $75 billion. The average annual income for Russians is 18K. If my memory serves me right, you think he’s just swell. So why complain if the Ukrainians have a rich candidate.


3 posted on 03/29/2014 10:10:41 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: Navy Patriot

Smart play.
I listened to both and the boxer isn’t ready to lead a country.
Probably a mute point as Russia isn’t going to take no for an answer.


4 posted on 03/29/2014 10:10:50 AM PDT by Zathras
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To: FBD
...crony capitalism is a problem in Ukraine. Better than the Russian alternative however...

Not necessarily.

5 posted on 03/29/2014 10:31:15 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

You are so ignorant. Putin is, was, and always will be KGB. ANYTHING he has a hand in will be tainted with the blood of those who are NOT communists.

I know you think you are more intelligent than any one else and that only you can see how wonderful a man Putin actually to want to be against muslims. In fact Putin is against ANYONE who doesn’t serve his purpose.

Being snarky about others elections is not only pointless it is in truth mindless


6 posted on 03/29/2014 10:32:30 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: Nifster

Thoughtful post, there.


7 posted on 03/29/2014 10:43:38 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
A billionaire President for the poor Democratic Republic of Ukraine?

A self made businessman may be what is needed comrade.

Link

8 posted on 03/29/2014 10:44:12 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Navy Patriot

So they are going to vote in that corrupt temptress again? Do they ever learn?


9 posted on 03/29/2014 11:09:49 AM PDT by Viennacon
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To: FBD

10 posted on 03/29/2014 11:16:43 AM PDT by Leo Carpathian (FReeeeepeesssssed)
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To: Navy Patriot

There will be one candidate.....the little b**** with the braid.


11 posted on 03/29/2014 11:17:00 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Navy Patriot
I think the Ukrainian people have a better memory of Russian rule then we do...

http://www.holodomorct.org/history.html

http://www.anti-communist.net/marxist_terror/collectivization.jpg

12 posted on 03/29/2014 11:20:30 AM PDT by FBD
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To: Navy Patriot
Kitscho (left) drops out of Pres. Race, throws support behind Poroshenko (candyman)... Kitscho running for Mayor of Kiev, elections for Mayor run at same time as Pres. election..... Now Pres. run is Tymoshenko vs Poroshenko.

Petro Popshenko...net worth 1.3 Billion.......Member of Ukraine Gov....'former' Minister for Foreign Affairs and Minister of Trade and Economic Development of Ukraine.... sometimes cited as one of the most influential people in Ukrainian politics....served as head of the parliamentary 'budget committee'....he knows where the money is and goes...


13 posted on 03/29/2014 11:25:27 AM PDT by caww
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To: Navy Patriot
From what I've seen in Russia and read Russia today is more socialist than communist....it's been understood Putin wants Russia to include all of the former Russian states, but without Communism.....when you consider how far Putins brought RUssia into the 21st century and the accomplishments in Russia he's brought about, it is no wonder he's supported as he is...they have long way to go yet...but from a Russians point of view they support the efforts and success they've come to in thier country, from what it once was.

Putin has billions, but keep in mind Ukraine's oil was massively subsidized....300-400 Billion will now be at Putins disposal should Ukraine go economically with the EU and not just politically, where it stands now. Additionally...Arab and Chinese investors in EU started to withdraw money and investments from EU as a result of sanctions...likely why also Obama is making rounds....needs to reassure nation leaders things will turn out "Alright"...tsk tsk... Sanctions are not the answer when so many nations are now "hardwired" through pipelines and International Trade deals at all levels. Which is why the EU and US used these...they knew it wouldn't do more than slap a few hands.....none were going to war over Ukraine....which is far more significant to Putin than the EU or the US.

14 posted on 03/29/2014 11:39:42 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Russia currently has a flat tax of 13%.

That’s several percent lower than the tax Steve Forbes was aiming for.

In light of this fact, how sensible are descriptions of Russia as “Communist”?

Which is more socialist, Russia or the USA?


15 posted on 03/29/2014 11:44:29 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: caww
Now Pres. run is Tymoshenko vs Poroshenko.

There probably will be others. For example Yanukovich's The Party of Regions' candidate hasn't picked anybody yet.

16 posted on 03/29/2014 11:47:49 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FBD

“I think the Ukrainian people have a better memory of Russian rule then we do...”

Except the small detail that Stalin was not Russian?

How you blame events done by Stalin on “Russian rule”, when Stalin was not even Russian, and he had complete totalitarian power?

You could have accurately blamed it specifically on communists, but then your point would have fallen apart.


17 posted on 03/29/2014 11:51:07 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Navy Patriot

I hope Poroshenko wins.


18 posted on 03/29/2014 11:51:55 AM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: FBD
I think the Ukrainian people have a better memory of Russian rule then we do...

Certainly they do.

The New York Times covered up for Stalin (a Georgian) and his murder of millions of Ukrainians between 1928 and 1935.

Putin was born in 1952, and there is no Russian in the government of the Russian Federation now, that was in the Soviet Russian government in 1935.

How again is this historic genocide Putin's fault, and why haven't Ukrainians taken down the New York Times organization that still exists and was in conspiracy?

19 posted on 03/29/2014 11:52:12 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: 1_Rain_Drop
I hope Poroshenko wins.

For Ukraine I hope the honest candidate wins and I have no idea who that is.

For America, I not enamored with billionaire politics, like Bloomberg or Buffett. I wouldn't let either be dogcatcher.

20 posted on 03/29/2014 12:05:15 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: caww
From what I've seen in Russia and read, Russia today is more socialist than communist....it's been understood Putin wants Russia to include all of the former Russian states, but without Communism.....when you consider how far Putin's brought Russia into the 21st century and the accomplishments in Russia he's brought about, it is no wonder he's supported as he is...they have long way to go yet...but from a Russians point of view they support the efforts and success they've come to in their country, from what it once was.

There you go, being observant again. Don't you know you're supposed to be angry?

Few understand these points, and about all I can add is Russia under it's current government is moving well away from Communism, and away from Socialism. I want to emphasize the DIRECTION, though I cannot predict how far they will go.

America on the other hand, ....welcome comrade!

21 posted on 03/29/2014 12:15:24 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Mount Athos
Lenin was a mass murderer too, yet his statues are still all over Russia. The Ukrainian people have been tearing them down. If Russians are so embarrassed by their Communist past, then why haven't they distanced themselves from their mass murderers?

“If for the sake of Communism it is necessary for us to destroy 9/10ths of the people, we must not hesitate”  Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov-Blank (better known as Vladimir Lenin)

http://doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/lenin-statue-1.jpg

22 posted on 03/29/2014 12:24:08 PM PDT by FBD
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To: caww; Lazmataz
I think we should defer to the expert here, so I'm pinging Lazmataz.

Hey Laz, the blond with the braid, hit it, elect it, or both?


23 posted on 03/29/2014 12:27:00 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
Hit it and then flee, they look good now but when the rectangle gene kicks in they all look like bapci, a horrible transformation.

The skinny little woman you married turned into a stacked square, been there.

24 posted on 03/29/2014 12:39:47 PM PDT by Little Bill (EVICT Queen Jean)
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To: FBD
Here is a partial list of monuments in America that I approve of, contributing to our history and national pride.

The Obama regime condemns me and other patriotic Americans for not tearing them down.

American Monuments

25 posted on 03/29/2014 12:42:00 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: FBD

“Lenin was a mass murderer too, yet his statues are still all over Russia. The Ukrainian people have been tearing them down. If Russians are so embarrassed by their Communist past, then why haven’t they distanced themselves from their mass murderers?”


Somehow you missed this quote from the article accompanying your picture.

“A large amount of Lenin statues were torn down in Russia following the collapse of the U.S.S.R.”

You also neglected to mention that the statue in your picture was blown up with TNT.


26 posted on 03/29/2014 12:42:24 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Navy Patriot

I believe that Putin has a vision of restoring Soviet greatness, albeit with some crony capitalism mixed in.

http://archive.kremlin.ru/eng/speeches/2005/04/25/2031_type70029type82912_87086.shtml

From the Kremlin:
“Above all, we should acknowledge that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century. As for the Russian nation, it became a genuine drama. Tens of millions of our co-citizens and co-patriots found themselves outside Russian territory. Moreover, the epidemic of disintegration infected Russia itself.”-Vladimir Putin


27 posted on 03/29/2014 12:50:50 PM PDT by FBD
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To: Mount Athos
“Somehow you missed this quote from the article accompanying your picture.“A large amount of Lenin statues were torn down in Russia following the collapse of the U.S.S.R.”You also neglected to mention that the statue in your picture was blown up with TNT.”

-Good catch. But oops! Looks like the Russian lovers of modern representative democracy missed one in Donetsk.... and what's with the Communist flags with Che on them?
DONETSK:

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/various_uploads/skeet/Donetsk_Russia_Ukraine_13.jpg

28 posted on 03/29/2014 12:58:48 PM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD

Does that mean that the USA is Communist because someone posts a picture showing two guys holding up a Che flag?

It doesn’t sound like you have a very rigorous thought process in guessing at the mentality of an entire country’s populace.


29 posted on 03/29/2014 1:02:45 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: FBD
I believe that Putin has a vision of restoring Soviet greatness, albeit with some crony capitalism mixed in.

And I believe that Putin has a vision of restoring Russian greatness, albeit with some crony capitalism mixed in.

It is wise to always consider more what they do than what they say.

30 posted on 03/29/2014 1:06:09 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
Off topic, but on the issue of the war between the States, l don't see how any comparison can be made of Confederate statues to statues of Communist mass murderers who killed millions. If anything, the confederacy was a resistance to an over reaching federal government that was taxing southern ports for northern gain. Not to troll your post topic on Ukraine, but regarding tge civil war, I believe the real tyrant was “honest” Abe, a man who probably is our equivalent of Lenin.
31 posted on 03/29/2014 1:10:53 PM PDT by FBD
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To: Navy Patriot
Note: Not so quick...amazing what botox, hairdye, and makeup can do for a 50 year old woman...

..and she ditched the braid recently..

Putting on the charm when meeting US Diplomatic Team recently in Ukraine

There will be a sympathy vote....long term back problems were not addressed well in prison..

Putin likes her too...


32 posted on 03/29/2014 1:23:53 PM PDT by caww
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To: Mount Athos
People are known by the company they keep. That was just one photo of many. I can post more, to prove my point, if you think I've based my opinions on one photo.

Ukraine: Donetsk's old Soviet faithful and young radicals look to Moscow
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/22/ukraine-crisis-donetsk-soviet-faithful-young-radicals-moscow

http://voiceofdetroit.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Ukraine-Crimea-pro-Russian-protesters.jpg

http://gdb.rferl.org/6396B787-BE39-4501-9986-F8A50B1B8C36_mw1024_n_s.jpg

http://cdn.mintpressnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Russia-Ukraine-Phone-_Mill.jpg

33 posted on 03/29/2014 1:37:55 PM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD
Off topic, but on the issue of the war between the States, l don't see how any comparison can be made of Confederate statues to statues of Communist mass murderers who killed millions.

Not off topic for you, because I brought it up, and your complaint against a comparison is valid if I had made or intended a comparison.

I did neither, my purpose was to point out that the history of a nation can effect the construction and type of monuments in that nation.

Not all the Communists in Russia are dead, somewhere between 20 and 25% of Russians are sympathetic to Communist policy. Although many Icons to Communists have been destroyed there is a considerable group that does not appreciate this, and Stalin did lead Russia to survival against the German Nazis, this cannot be dismissed.

In America a sizable portion of the population does not offer the South respect or consideration for the bravery, loyalty or sacrifice of their citizens and would have the world's leftists join them in tearing down Confederate monuments.

That is my point, judgment from outside a nation.

If anything, the confederacy was a resistance to an over reaching federal government that was taxing southern ports for northern gain.

True, but you say that from a viewpoint within the United States, find a Zimbabwean or South African that will agree with you, that's the point.

but regarding the civil war, I believe the real tyrant was “honest” Abe, a man who probably is our equivalent of Lenin.

Lincoln usurped the Rule of Law and violated the Constitution hundreds, probably thousands of times, performed every act that distinguishes tyrants from rulers, but I will not specify that he rises to the level of Lenin, who was pure evil as was the philosophy developed for his use.

Finally, I wish to point out that every leftist DemoRat in America is so, completely voluntarily, and always has been, while only a very few Russians were voluntarily Communist before 1992.

34 posted on 03/29/2014 1:51:25 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
I do like to make up my own mind...and this by looking closer than what the news organizations dictate, from either sides. Personally Putin's been getting the raw end of the stick for years, no matter what he's done to be inclusive with the World Leaders.....because they know he opposes the Global Agenda of inclusiveness of all nations. Though he supports trade among nations...Governance is a matter of each nations right. He see's the Eu/Nato and US orchestrating events with a distinct agenda for World Governance.....he's right...that is happening and a push toward that. The race is on between powers ...China also seeks their own World Dominance Agenda....All powerful nations moving toward whatever resources they can grab...be it land...oil...gold mines...property, companies and industry...water etc. Because whoever gains the most gains the power and the money.

We, and nations peoples are simply the cash cow they milk from. Third world nations are used to launder the cash they move around through the thousands of organizations "collecting" and redistributing....IMO....leaving a few crumbs from their tables for the down and out so they can say they helped.

There is a tipping point where all this will end..and it won't be pretty when it ultimately is seen and heard..on down the line....and this before the world self destructs...

Can you imagine being alive when the "door of heaven opens" and this massive coalition of all heaven envelopes the world?


35 posted on 03/29/2014 2:06:33 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww
Honestly, I don't know who should be President of Ukraine, and I don't think it's the point.

I think that Obama ignores Venezuela because he can't use it to poke Putin, like he can with Ukraine.

Obama hopes to provoke Putin enough, and use Western MSM propaganda to undermine support for Putin, and gain enough support for Obama and NATO to allow hostilities toward Russia without UN approval, resulting in serious anger of Russians against Americans.

A serious split between Russia and America is of great benefit to the Muslim horde and their plans to rule the West and the world.

36 posted on 03/29/2014 2:11:00 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: FBD

You can find pictures of concentrations of people to support whatever view you want.

Were the protesters in Kiev really representative of the mentality of the whole country?
How about the “occupy” protesters?

In the last election, communists won about 13% of the vote in Ukraine. Maybe that is a more accurate indicator of support than some pictures.

That’s about the same percent as in Russia.

Many of these people vote for the communists because they want to nationalize oil, and have that money go to support social programs like public schools and child subsidies for families, health care, etc..

Is that really so different from the majority of this country that voted for Obama?

Because our country voted for Obama twice, does it mean our country is irredeemably wicked and communist and should be opposed reflexively?

Ukraine has done poorly after independence, despite massive foreign aid. Most Ukrainians are below poverty line. Very low income growth. It’s so bad that it’s not surprising to see a some percent longing for the higher pensions of the old days.

The western leaning government of Tymoshenko was incredibly corrupt, leading to her election loss. (Her Russian leaning replacement was just as corrupt). This probably damaged people’s hopes at what a future Western leaning government might bring.

Look at the first results of the interim government — removing the official status of minority languages, and a 50% hike in natural gas prices. Won’t that push voters into the arms of the opposition?

The right wing party the West supports in Ukraine, glamorizes leaders at their rallies that wanted totalitarianism (Stepan Bandera, etc...).

There’s people on both sides and many voters who want “strong government”.


37 posted on 03/29/2014 2:15:52 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: caww

“Personally Putin’s been getting the raw end of the stick for years, no matter what he’s done to be inclusive with the World Leaders.....because they know he opposes the Global Agenda of inclusiveness of all nations.”

Right. In an alternative universe created by pathological Russophiles, FSB disinformation agents and their useful idiots.


38 posted on 03/29/2014 2:19:43 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: FBD
Donestk is very loyal to Russia.....at least the majority is, which is why they constantly have upheaval among citizens there...and you're right..they have been able to instill this love of Russia into the next generations. Not so sure younger Russians see the "old Communist Russia" though....when they can go to Russia and sit in an Irish pub, see how it's changed, they see something quite different then what the older generation saw.

New years st. Petersburg....mcuh like any city at this time

Novosibirsk,Siberia Russia

Ekaterinburg, Russia.

Moscow International Business Center


39 posted on 03/29/2014 2:51:15 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Beats Detroit.


40 posted on 03/29/2014 2:52:14 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
Beats Detroit.

Yeah, but Detroit keeps it's Republican right arm tied behind it's back.

41 posted on 03/29/2014 3:16:56 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
Interesting chart....looks like Europe/Nato has more than been dragging it's feet on defending their areas of responsibility....

Also note Ukraine...$5,038 growth???

And just for a note, I read during Libya war the EU supposedly ran out of bombs and had to depend on ours..as well as refueling their jets.


42 posted on 03/29/2014 3:18:19 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

The upside of US military spending are the cool new uniforms and patches we will have when we are fighting for the Caliphate.


43 posted on 03/29/2014 3:23:00 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Mount Athos

Granted, there’s extremists in every movement, including those who were protesting in Kiev. There’s a definite imperialist trend towards reconsolidating land back to Russia. They claim it’s for security and stability, but they are definitely regaining lost soviet territories.


44 posted on 03/29/2014 3:59:49 PM PDT by FBD
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To: caww

Nice pictures. Russia plays the role of anti-imperialist, defenders of the poor countries, but they’re every bit as imperialist as the USA has ever been.


45 posted on 03/29/2014 4:05:36 PM PDT by FBD
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To: Navy Patriot

On Lincoln, we agree. I would only add that almost all politicians by nature, are opportunistic sociopaths, whose numbers of victims only vary between hundreds,thousands, and millions because of hap and circumstance.


46 posted on 03/29/2014 4:11:24 PM PDT by FBD
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To: Navy Patriot

As an example of why I think Lincoln was every bit as power hungry and dangerous as any Soviet leader, here are quotes from the man Lincoln put in charge of killing Southerners. (Surely Lincoln was well aware of these statements made by Sherman)

“The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work and never will. War suits them. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace....”Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

“The more Indians we can kill this year the fewer we will need to kill the next, because the more I see of the Indians the more convinced I become that they must either all be killed or be maintained as a species of pauper. Their attempts at civilization is ridiculous...” -Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

“Look to the South and you who went with us through that land can best say if they have not been fearfully punished. Mourning is in every household, desolation written in broad characters across the whole face of their country, cities in ashes and fields laid waste, their commerce gone, their system of labor annihilated and destroyed. Ruin and poverty and distress everywhere, and now pestilence adding to the very cap sheaf of their stack of misery...Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, the man who left a 60 mile wide, 300 mile long path of death and desolation across GA and up through SC.
I have destroyed over 2,000 barns filled with wheat, hay and farming implements; over 70 mills filled with flour and wheat, and have driven in front of the Army over 4,000 head of stock and have killed and issued to the troops not less than 3,000 sheep.

Tomorrow I will continue the destruction down to Fisher’s Mill. When this is completed, the Valley from Winchester to Staunton, 92 miles, will have but little in it for man or beast.”..from an Oct. 7, 1864 report to Gen. Grant from Gen. Sheridan.


47 posted on 03/29/2014 4:20:43 PM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD
On Lincoln, we agree. I would only add that almost all politicians by nature, are opportunistic sociopaths,...

I would exclude Ronald Reagan, but I cannot reasonably dispute your point.

Now that you obviously look on Lincoln form an American point of view, can you look on Putin from a Russian point of view?

48 posted on 03/29/2014 4:31:28 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: FBD
"These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace...." Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

Certainly, This is exactly how crony capitalists (Fascists) punish agricultural states that refuse their rule and offer to sell their produce directly to their competitors in Europe.

49 posted on 03/29/2014 4:42:32 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: FBD

Form=From


50 posted on 03/29/2014 4:43:39 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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