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To: familyop
Same here, in the U.S.A., for those of you cognizant of the recent propane price debacle here.

Two quick things about that. Propane is produced with other gases from oil wells, and separated and liquefied at gas processing plants, the same plants which strip other heavier molecules, water, and impurities from the Methane which we more commonly know as "Natural Gas".

The Administration is attacking the production of propane in two ways. First the Government Media attack on 'fracking', which enhances production and has been, in conjunction with horizontal drilling, the technology which has enabled oil and gas companies to tap huge resources previously unavailable with a reasonable ROI.

Second the dawning crusade against 'methane emissions' which could conceivably be used to hobble the oil and gas industry.

The latter is barking about how methane is a powerful greenhouse gas, yadda, yadda, yadda, but we just haven't noticed all that warming here in North Dakota, despite flaring gas (producing CO2) and 'methane emissions'. Flaring is on the decline as infrastructure catches up and multiwell pad drilling reduces the infrastructure needed for gathering systems, and as new gas plants are constructed.

But note the Obama administration is trying their damndest to come up with a way to make energy not only more expensive here, but prohibitively so for export.

Round that off with stalling pipeline permits and howling about the dangers of transporting crude oil and petroleum products by rail, and you'd better get a (new, EPA approved) woodstove...

25 posted on 03/30/2014 12:38:27 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Thank you for the education (sincerely). I can’t disagree with anything that you wrote. Natural gas and oil are great stuff. It appears from my unlearned perspective, that the main problem with fracking are the costs (regulatory included) and probable shorter durations of plays. While markets are up, it’s good for all of us.

I’ve seen conventional energy projects (uranium and gas) shut down in my own area after rants about “property values” and the “environment.” It’s even more of a shame in a majority Republican county (all about mythical property values and sponging off of tourists in that County on the CO Rockies...on that geological formation named after the vulgar cartoon). If gas distribution to dealerships (stations) in areas like this were more expensive, they’d probably have less fuel (money and time) to push against energy producers with. Company stations would probably be far better up here than dealerships (dealerships hooked on tourism, retirees, their animal worship and environmentalism). Dealers, along with their lefty comrades, fighting the companies that feed them. Ain’t that somethin’.

Regulations in all levels of government are hurting us all, including local regulations against energy, building and manufacturing (including small projects on small properties).

But it appears that much political speech and effort has devolved into local vs. federal spending. I’m not on either side of that. Subsidies aren’t helping, either, including subsidies for big alternative energy programs. We Americans, for most part, haven’t been saving enough.

I’m in favor of savings, technologies and competition for all. Competition is what once made our nation great. The problems for small alternative energy projects are laziness and regulations. Here’s a little about what works in alternative energy—most being problematic with regulations that favor large manufacturers and traveling career installers (IBC/IRC, IMC, ASTM, etc.).

* Solar radiant heating, especially in sunny areas, if it’s owner-installed. There are some drainback systems with less efficient (by about 3%), far less costly, homebuilt collectors and small, insulated concrete tanks full of pure water (more thermal mass than with steel heat exchangers and no pressure). Professionally installed, closed loop systems (see fly-by-night contractors with local passes) are vastly more expensive and won’t pay for themselves, but nearly all of the inspectors favor the more familiar closed loop systems over good open loop systems (no extra pressures, high temperatures or antifreeze).

* PV solar electricity for owner-installers or those who know an electrician. Component prices aren’t too bad now, even for those of us not taking tax credits, rebates, etc. Also won’t pay for itself if professionally installed or not properly planned (electric ranges, electric dryers, etc.).

Owner-installers should be knowledgeable in basic electrical/electronic work and conscientious in following the NEC—especially safety procedures. It’s not that hard and doesn’t cost much more.

Some rare electrical inspectors will refuse to answer questions about the few ambiguities affecting certain PV solar installations and claim to be unable to understand a word from anyone not in the local builders’ racket. In such cases, owner-installers should document and photograph all evidence or abandon their projects. The electrical inspector for my area is great and clear in communications, by the way—always motivated toward fixing any problems instead of indulging in them or stopping projects. Good and intelligent man.

* Mass heaters: rocket stove mass heaters, small masonry heaters, etc., if homebuilt by technically inclined people capable of following instructions. Reasoning human beings can learn masonry skills from books and practice. With castable refractories and instructions closely followed, no masonry experience is required—only study, ability to properly follow instructions and work.

Regulations for installing cost-effective, homebuilt mass heaters are worse than ambiguous and prohibitive in a political environment where many local inspectors—even in sparsely populated counties in the middle of nowhere—are denying all projects not very explicitly allowed in codes.


26 posted on 03/30/2014 1:04:54 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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