Posted on 04/11/2014 9:32:51 AM PDT by tcrlaf
“I was in both print and internet media for over a decade and I assure you that the reason they are called stories is that they are mostly fantasies.”
That may be true, but it still falls within the realm of a logically fallacious Appeal to Authority and is mere anecdotal evidence.
And our Russian posters will whine about it. Putin simply is misunderstood, that's all.
All I can do is go by my real world experience in multiple news/media outlets from local to international. I’m not in Ukraine/Russia so I don’t “Know” what the truth is. But based on what I do know, having witnessed this kind of thing first hand (media manipulation), tells me that people are getting far from unbiased journalism. In are being manipulated rather effectively.
This. Should. Just. Be. About. Ukraine.
If you want to know what that is, pay attention to what Lavrov is saying/has said.
"Very" incorrect.
Very incorrect.
Yanuckovich was impeached. 75% of the Rada voted for it.
The point is, support neither Putin, not interventionism when it comes to Ukraine -— Nor Svoboda, nor Right Sector.
We are now at the point that any intervention in Ukraine will be largely about the Obama Adm. wanting revenge over Obama getting embarrassed w/ Syria.
Secondly, McCain was the poster boy for intervening in Lybia. Obama says we need to bomb Lybia. McCain goes to Syria and palled around with some Syrian undesirables. Obama says “let's intervene.” Next, McCain is palling around with Tyhanybok. Now Kerry and Obama are trying to stall Putin's objectives in Ukraine.
Obama and McCain are practically hand-in-hand on overseas military matters.
If McCain says yes, you can bet the right answer is no.
Helping Ukraine in ANY way gets us in a mess that we need to stay out of.
We don't need to help in any way - indirectly or directly Svoboda or Right Sector or any other undesirables.
We need to lave Ukraine alone. Let Europe handle this. It is about time they developed a backbone.
You mention 5 entities. 4 of them march to the beat of the same drummer whereas Ukraine is a nation looking to set its own course.
...Entities that you paint with a broad brush. They are entities of different natures and ability to affect change.
Ukraine couldn't collectively change one light bulb, yet alone set its own course.
Ukrainian politicians (in order to topple the former structure(s)) had to have the Maidan/Svoboda/Pravy Sektor thugs to act as brown shirts to evoke change. And now that things have changed they are discovering that governing is different than rabble-rousing.
And they needed old-fart John McLame of all people to come in December to add to the rousing...
And they are billions in debt (beyond the $ they owe to Russia for gas supplies. This doesn't count the billions that Russia has poured in in the past to prop up floundering Ukraine.
The nation will split - Europe will rebuild the West - slowly, and Russia will rebuild the East -slowly.
Set their own course.....
Give me a break.
The best analogy, albeit far from exact, for the relationship between Russia and the Ukraine is the relationship between the USA and the South.
That's false...and a good example of western propaganda.
Western propaganda?? LOL.
Somebody has been watching too much Alex Jones and Russia Today.
I am amazed that Russia Today is allowed as a source here while Alex Jones is not, and Al Jazeera/New York Times are frowned upon. It is way worst than the other 3 combined, basically releases from Putin’s press secretary.
The point of my post was to suggest that bambi and pooty are allied against Ukraine. They both want to see it brought to heel. The EU also has the same goal and you appear to be on that side also.
Oh look...its one of Hillary’s flying monkeys.
I don’t have a problem with Russia [Propaganda] Today being posted here, just the Russians who yammer that we need to accept it as truth, while every other media source must be questioned.
The New York Times are basically releases from Karl Marx's press secretary, so all's good.
~Horse manure, there is plenty of Russian MSM that is unfriendly and critical of Putin while claiming love for Russia.
Maybe you could cite some examples in the original Russian.~
msk.ru is 66% owned by Gazprom. A majority of Gazprom is owned by the Russian government.
http://tvrain.ru/
Tvrain was disconnected by the largest cable providers in Russia in January for saying things that Putin didn't like.
http://www.gazeta-pravda.ru/
Pravda is currently owned by the Communist Party of the Russian Federation.
328 MPs in the RADA voted to impeach Yanuky.
BTW, if you can read in Russian and really interested in what is going on there I may recommend you an article:
http://ruxpert.ru/%D0%9B%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%84%D1%8B#.D0.9C.D0.B8.D1.84.D1.8B_.D0.BE_.D0.B7.D0.B0.D0.BF.D1.80.D0.B5.D0.B4.D0.B5.D0.BB.D1.8C.D0.BD.D0.BE_.D0.BD.D0.B8.D0.B7.D0.BA.D0.BE.D0.BC_.D1.83.D1.80.D0.BE.D0.B2.D0.BD.D0.B5_.D0.B6.D0.B8.D0.B7.D0.BD.D0.B8_.D0.B2_.D0.A0.D0.BE.D1.81.D1.81.D0.B8.D0.B8
“LIBERAL MYTHS
Most of the “liberal” lies are based on open fiction or hopelessly outdated information. Parishioners of this “Crumbling Russia Church” trust all the negative information about our country by far - simply because they want to believe in a deplorable situation of our country. Nevertheless , sometimes bright facts and links to irrefutable sources still help if not todrive russophobe stalled, then at least make him break into uncontrollable hysteria.
Selection of such facts and links going in this article.”
Google translated.
It is written from a position of a Russian “patriot” who are supporting his government and critical to a perception of Russia by both domestic and international leftists.
For that reason I find it slightly biased but certainly not to a point of propaganda. Some figures are incorrect or outdated too but it is still 95% factually correct.
It shows exactly how an average “conservative” Ivan sees things including Putin, the West and leftists who(quite ironically) are viewed there as a “useful idiots” or a tools used by the West to hurt Russia.
Make no mistake, they aren’t a yet conservatives in classic American terms - generations of tyranny and decades of forced government dependency are showing. You can see remnants of socialist thinking but it is not a reason to jump on them screaming “fake conservatives!”. You still need to take their background into account and the tendency is that they are already less communist on many issues than most Obama voters and still developing in true conservative direction while Obamabots traversing to full communism.
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