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Jesse Winchester, musician and draft-dodger, dead at 69
CBC News ^ | April 11, 2014

Posted on 04/11/2014 8:32:03 PM PDT by ConservativeStatement

Jesse Winchester, an American singer-songwriter who moved to Montreal in the 1960s to dodge the Vietnam War draft, died in his sleep Friday morning at the age of 69 after a lengthy illness.

Born in Louisiana and raised in Tennessee, Winchester developed his musical talent while living in Montreal. He often played at a hotel in Morin Heights, Que., run by several Tennessee transplants during the 1970s.

(Excerpt) Read more at cbc.ca ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: draftdodger; vietnam; winchester
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I'm not familiar with him but thought some here may recognize the name and be interested in commenting.
1 posted on 04/11/2014 8:32:03 PM PDT by ConservativeStatement
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To: ConservativeStatement

f em...he is a celebrated draft dodger


2 posted on 04/11/2014 8:32:38 PM PDT by advertising guy ( <------------- lotta white in here ------------>)
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To: ConservativeStatement

Coward.


3 posted on 04/11/2014 8:34:31 PM PDT by doc1019
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To: ConservativeStatement
never heard of him, but f-em...
4 posted on 04/11/2014 8:36:11 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: ConservativeStatement

I don’t recall ever hearing the name.


5 posted on 04/11/2014 8:40:42 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: ConservativeStatement

Good riddance to a no talent jerk. The only reason his name is known is his anti American views


6 posted on 04/11/2014 8:44:56 PM PDT by Figment
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To: ConservativeStatement
A military draft is a form of slavery which we tolerate during times of major conflict such as WW=II because if we ever lost something like that, we'd all be slaves.

But the idea of telling the boy next door that he has any sort of a patriotic duty to go into harms way over some damned stupid geopolitical game which doesn't even rate a declaration of war is heinous; they got away with it one final time in Korea and then it blew up in their faces in the late 60s with Nam, which is why we now have an all-volunteer military. Necessary is some sort of a constitutional amendment or law stating a minimal set of circumstances under which draftees could ever be used in combat and a bare minimum should be a full declaration of war and a full commitment to destroy some adversary. Minus that, you've got no business using draftees in combat.

7 posted on 04/11/2014 8:59:12 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: ConservativeStatement

Dear Jesse

Thank you for your lifelong support of the NVA

Nuyggen Vo Giap


8 posted on 04/11/2014 9:12:10 PM PDT by LeoWindhorse
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To: varmintman

The Cold War was what you think WWII was.

This guy was a coward for not fighting the draft in America, and facing any consequences from that battle, he was not patriotic and he was not a brave man, he was afraid.


9 posted on 04/11/2014 9:14:34 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: ConservativeStatement

Moved to Canada at age15, to dodge a future draft?


10 posted on 04/11/2014 9:19:05 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: varmintman
you've got no business using draftees in combat.

Why not? About 70% of our WWII war dead were draftees. WWI and Korea, were major draft wars.

Today we are forced to use single moms and grandmothers, in place of young warrior men.

11 posted on 04/11/2014 9:19:48 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: Figment
Good riddance to a no talent jerk.

You can say many things, but his "Nothing But a Breeze" is a masterpiece.


12 posted on 04/11/2014 9:23:05 PM PDT by eddie willers
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To: eddie willers

A great musician.

Love them Bowling Green girls.


13 posted on 04/11/2014 9:33:45 PM PDT by Bartholomew Roberts
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To: ConservativeStatement

Never heard of him thankfully. A real man would have at least gone to jail instead of fleeing. 40,000 Canadians fought in Vietnam as volunteers.


14 posted on 04/11/2014 9:40:11 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: varmintman

75 % of those who fought in Vietnam were volunteers, not draftees. I agree that any war we fight should be declared and fought to win. I am not, however, a Milton Friedman in my view of the draft.


15 posted on 04/11/2014 9:43:41 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: ConservativeStatement

Don’t bury this gutless puke in the USA; he turned his back on this country. Bury him in China or Russia.


16 posted on 04/11/2014 9:50:50 PM PDT by Rembrandt (Part of the 51% who pay Federal taxes)
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To: varmintman

” Minus that, you’ve got no business using draftees in combat.”

Charlie Rangel (D-NYC) keeps trying, over and over, to reinstate the draft.


17 posted on 04/11/2014 9:52:42 PM PDT by Rembrandt (Part of the 51% who pay Federal taxes)
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To: ansel12

Well you cherry picked the quote. The original poster also said “a bare minimum should be a full declaration of war and a full commitment to destroy some adversary.” ABSENT THAT, you’ve got no business using draftees in combat.

In other words, unless we have declared war and fully committed to kick ass, take names, and WIN (like WWII, when we all knew who we were fighting against) they why should you draft some kid who doesn’t even know why he’s there? Its hard to disagree.


18 posted on 04/11/2014 10:00:56 PM PDT by bigdaddy45
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To: Rembrandt

93% of our WWII Army was draftees, you wanted the 7% to do all the fighting?

This draftee doesn’t feel that way: The last draftee retired less than 3 years ago.

Army’s Last Draftee to Retire After 39 Years
Published July 03, 2011 Associated Press

Mellinger told the draft board there was a mistake.
“I ... told them I don’t need to go into the Army, I’ve got a job,” said Mellinger, who hung drywall for a living. “They just kind of laughed.”
(snip)
He heard so many war stories in training that he was fired up about going, and was disappointed he was instead assigned to be an office clerk in Germany.
(snip)
Mellinger wasn’t long for clerking. He earned a spot in the Army Rangers, and would go on to do more than 3,700 parachute jumps. And despite the 1991 parachute accident that gave him the material for the wind chime, breaking his leg in several places, he went on to run nine marathons. He was made a command sergeant major in 1992.
Nearly a decade later, he was sent to ground zero in New York right after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks as part of an advance party from the First Army. Then came his time in Iraq as the top enlisted soldier of the multi-national forces in Iraq, where he says he survived 27 roadside bombings during his deployment of nearly three years straight.
(snip)
“Draftees are pretty maligned over time,” he said, “but the fact is they are part of every branch of service up to 1973, and when you look at what those military branches accomplished over time, I’ll let the record speak for itself.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/03/armys-last-draftee-to-retire-after-3-years/#ixzz2d1ast2Gx


19 posted on 04/11/2014 10:01:53 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: bigdaddy45

Most military operations and combat do not take place under a declaration of war, so fantasy and all your “shoulds, full declaration, full commitment, taking names” aside, your post doesn’t have any relevance to my post.

Most Marines know why they are there, drafted or not, and yes, Marines are drafted in all major wars.


20 posted on 04/11/2014 10:05:40 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: ConservativeStatement

Well, he’s good and dead now.

I’m a Vietnam veteran and, praise God, I’m still alive.


21 posted on 04/11/2014 10:17:14 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: ConservativeStatement

Thanks for putting this in. A little obscure; but I still break out my favorite of his, and maybe some of our friends in the northerly climes can give a witness:
“I was tunin’ in the six o’clock newscast
When the weatherman mentioned ‘snow’;
As soon as I heard that four-letter word
I was makin’ my plans to go.
If I were a bird I could fly back south,
And then maybe I could go to sleep.
Anything rather than hang around here
When the snow starts gettin’ deep.

Well now you know what they say about snowflakes,
How there ain’t no two the same.
Ah, but all them flakes look alike to me,
Every one is a dirty shame.
My ears are cold, my feet are cold,
Bermuda stays on my mind;
And I’m here to say that if winter comes,
The spring can’t be far behind.
Etc

Cute song. I liked that one, and still belt it out sometimes.


22 posted on 04/11/2014 10:37:11 PM PDT by Migraine (Diversity is great -- until it happens to YOU..)
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To: Amberdawn

“75 % of those who fought in Vietnam were volunteers, not draftees. I agree that any war we fight should be declared and fought to win. I am not, however, a Milton Friedman in my view of the draft.”

You need to provide support for that claim.

Do you think less of a draftee who served/died in Vietnam for his country?

I have a friend that was drafted, and retired 37 years later as a Lt. General in combat arms (3 star).


23 posted on 04/11/2014 10:46:03 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: truth_seeker

The draft and historical amnesia
VFW Magazine, March, 2003

“No 20th century war could have been waged, much less won, without draftees. During WWI, 72% of servicemen were drafted—50% of the men in France’s trenches were conscripted.

In WWII, 66% of all U.S. forces were drafted. Of the 10.5 million Army personnel, a whopping 93% were draftees. A poll taken in 1941 showed that just more than half of Americans would be willingly drafted for overseas service.

From 1946 to 1973, 5,077,185 men were drafted. During the Korean War era, 30% of total troops were drafted. In December 1950, 82% of the Army in Korea was made up of regulars. Exactly two years later, the ratio was 37% regular to 63% draftee in the war zone.

During the Vietnam era, 1,728,344 men were drafted. Of the forces who actually served in Vietnam, 648,500 (25%) were draftees. Draftees (17,725) accounted for 30.4% of combat deaths in Vietnam.”


24 posted on 04/11/2014 10:48:29 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: Rembrandt
I thought that Jimmah pardoned the draft dodgers.

No reason he couldn't have come back to the USA at any time he wished.

But he didn't.

25 posted on 04/11/2014 10:52:46 PM PDT by boop (I just wanted a President. But I got a rock.)
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To: boop

“Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter granted him amnesty in the late 1970s, allowing Winchester to return to his home country to tour. However, the accomplished and revered country, roots and folk musician only moved back to the United States in 2002, after spending many years in Canada.”

He wasn’t interested in his country, at any level.


26 posted on 04/11/2014 10:56:00 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: eddie willers

A really very ordinary, derivative song sung by a talent-less voice.


27 posted on 04/11/2014 11:00:04 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: ConservativeStatement

“Mitt Romney Faces New Scrutiny Over Vietnam War-Era Draft Deferments”

Romney was a draft evader and spent a lot of his draft avoidance living in France, while his dad ran to be President and lead us in the Vietnam war, Romney was on a Church issued deferment, only available to Mormon white men.

Mitt’s father, who was running against Reagan and Nixon, dropped out after claiming to have been “brainwashed” by the American military.


28 posted on 04/11/2014 11:02:01 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: ConservativeStatement
RIP Sham-A-Ling-Dong-Ding - Jesse Winchester
29 posted on 04/11/2014 11:02:13 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: ansel12

Correction- not only “Mormon white men”, just not Mormon black men.

Black Mormons were not eligible for the Romney deferment.


30 posted on 04/11/2014 11:04:11 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: ansel12

Thanks for that information. WWII was the last war we waged, that resulted in decisive permanent victory.


31 posted on 04/11/2014 11:06:24 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: FredZarguna

I love Folk music, so of course I have to listen to people who I don’t agree with and that I would like to drown in a bucket of Granola in real life, luckily, this guy sucks, and he isn’t one that I like.


32 posted on 04/11/2014 11:08:13 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: truth_seeker

The generations that participated in WWII, are the ones that managed to give up Vietnam, even though our young warriors won all the major battles, and defeated the enemy on the battlefields.


33 posted on 04/11/2014 11:11:27 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: varmintman

I served in the Pacific in WWII and my brother was killed in the battle for Okinawa. Like so many who fought and died in WWII we did it to pay homage for goodness and opportunity in a great Nation established by some great free people. I reject your attitude about service in WWII. I do get a bit of your argument since that war because I do believe our latest ‘wars’ have been for other things dearer to presidents than the survival of the USA as intended by the Founders.


34 posted on 04/11/2014 11:13:29 PM PDT by noinfringers2
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To: truth_seeker

Why would anyone think less of a draftee?

http://www.ussboston.org/Neat_Stuff/VietnamMyths.html

http://www.veteranshour.com/vietnam_war_statistics.htm


35 posted on 04/12/2014 12:01:49 AM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: noinfringers2

Were you Army or navy?


36 posted on 04/12/2014 12:13:59 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: ConservativeStatement; GeronL; Revolting cat!

Didn’t Jimmy Carter drop the prosecution of draft dodgers?

Why didn’t he run away to Castro’s paradise in Cuba?


37 posted on 04/12/2014 12:23:12 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: "Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?")
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To: Amberdawn
Both my dad and his brother volunteered for the service during Vietnam.

Both were in the Airforce.

My dad got out when his hitch was up, but my uncle made a career out of it.

And both are proud of their service.

And do NOT ask them what they think of draft-dodgers, unless you want to hear an earful.

38 posted on 04/12/2014 12:24:15 AM PDT by boop (I just wanted a President. But I got a rock.)
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To: a fool in paradise

You would have to read the article, or the thread, to know the answer to that.


39 posted on 04/12/2014 12:32:32 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: boop

God Bless them both. My Dad was drafted during the Korean War, but never saw combat. He was an MP and feels the same way about draft dodgers.


40 posted on 04/12/2014 12:48:13 AM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: noinfringers2

I had a customer who wrote a book on his Army experiences in the Pacific, and his focus was how the media turned it into a Marine theater, although the Army did the bulk of the fighting.

Many people don’t know that in WWII, the Navy lost more than double the men of the Marine Corps.

WWII wasn’t like the wars since.


41 posted on 04/12/2014 12:50:08 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: ansel12

Yeah me too. This “masterpiece” is like a B-side of a B-side of a decent artist. And his voice is mediocre at best. J.J. Cale, he aint.


42 posted on 04/12/2014 12:52:21 AM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: Amberdawn; boop; GeronL

I fought the draft for two years, beat them, and then enlisted in the Army, as I had wanted to all along.

I was fine with men who opposed the draft, as a young man I saw it as an issue of individual honor to oppose it or not, but it had to be done by a patriot and for sincere reasons (most of us were teens and 20 years old), I would get very aggressive with guys who were dodging the draft as a part of a lack of patriotism, and would flat out confront and demand removal (from social situations) of a guy who was living outside the U.S to avoid prison.

Once I was in, I started to see the scale of the world, and I changed my perspective on the size of things.

I so loved Reagan and his vision, that I went back into military service during the 1980s.


43 posted on 04/12/2014 1:05:57 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: FredZarguna

A draft song by Donovan.
1969 - Donovan - To Susan on the West Coast waiting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNxpI9ZwYFs&feature=kp

A Texas song by Donovan.
Donovan, Remember the Alamo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBup2JAY0EM


44 posted on 04/12/2014 1:37:44 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: Chode
never heard of him, but f-em...

The non-acclaim for him is unanimous. He gets a ringing non-endorsement from freepers

45 posted on 04/12/2014 2:00:06 AM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: ConservativeStatement

Sympathies to his family and friends.

Jesse Winchester is one of those people that you hear what a great musician and songwriter he was, from other musicians. However, when I searched for “Jesse Winchester songs” a few minutes ago, the list that came up included only two or three I recognized (recorded by Jimmy Buffett), and only one I kind of liked.


46 posted on 04/12/2014 3:27:18 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Entropy is high. Wear a hat!)
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To: Amberdawn
75 % of those who fought in Vietnam were volunteers, not draftees.

If even one guy involved in Nam was a draftee, the entire theory of the thing is invalidated. Where is the logic of sending an American slave army or even an American army in which 25% of the soldiers are slaves, to fight for somebody else's freedom??

47 posted on 04/12/2014 3:36:00 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: noinfringers2

WW-II, in my view, was the one conflict in the last century for which a US draft could have been justified and you have to note that a draft was not needed for WW-II, at least not for combat roles. WW-II was a gigantic logistics push operation in which only some small percentage of those in uniform were ever involved in combat.


48 posted on 04/12/2014 3:48:11 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: onedoug; noinfringers2

For Combat Veterans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE9TNG8IQNI&feature=related


49 posted on 04/12/2014 4:37:37 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: onedoug

I’m a Vietnam vet & I thank you for your service.

No pity for draft dodgers in this corner. Still disgusting to think we had one for prez.


50 posted on 04/12/2014 5:37:36 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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