Kiev bows to Moscow, devolves near-autonomous powers on restive pro-Russian regions(Russia Won)

Debka File ^ | 04//2/2014 | Debka File

[goldstategop]

Ukraine has been forced to settle on Moscow's terms. Ukraine will be transformed into a federation - though to save Kiev face, it will not be officially called one but in practice it will function like one.

This is a big win for Moscow and a major defeat for the West.

[nathanbedford]

At the risk of sounding (gasp!) Wilsonian, what's wrong with countenancing the self-determination of peoples?

If the Russian speaking, Russian orthodox church attending, ethnically Russian people of eastern Ukraine are fools enough to submit themselves to a mafia government in Moscow, why should we put ourselves at risk of the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place to save them from their own folly?

In effect, I must concede I am countenancing one man, one vote, one time which I oppose in places like Iraq or Afghanistan-oppose in the sense that I see no connection between pouring American blood and treasure into the sands of those countries and making America secure from terrorism of the pan-Islam movement to dominate the world. And that is the distinction: The acquisition by Russia of eastern Ukraine does not pose a threat to the security of the United States. I do not even believe there is a real historical parallel going back to the 1930s in the era of appeasement.

In sum, when a pan national movement such as communism when it was virulent and aggressive, fascism in the same mode, or Islamism, grab off a piece of turf even, by the consent of its occupants, I say we have to be Ronald Reagan like in our defense posture. But when one man, one vote, one time occurs without substantially increasing the threat to national security, I say we increase our defense forces, accumulate allies, and bide our time.

[Berlin_Freeper]

You remind me of this creep...

http://youtu.be/WvxbvLI-gRU?t=24m43s

[goldstategop]

Exactly my view.

Our punishment of Russia hasn’t increased our influence or shown our deterrence.

We all knew how it was going to end... and you don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.

A Chicago Community Organizer was outmaneuvered by a KGB spy. They can keep telling themselves in Washington Moscow was taught a lesson.

The facts say different.

[goldstategop]

You can shoot the messenger.

I am not gloating! We are playing with a weak hand - and bluffing.

If you can refute the report, be my guest. But our hearts, time and money weren’t in this fight and FYI, most Americans don’t care.

[Berlin_Freeper]

http://youtu.be/WvxbvLI-gRU?t=1h17m57s

[goldstategop]

You don’t need to tell me about good vs. evil.

We lost one and we’ll live to fight where it really matters - and when it does my friend, we’ll be fighting in the same trenches together.

[Sacajaweau]

Our money is in this fight...big time....big time. Who do you think funds 90% of the EU?

[goldstategop]

EU? Europe is wealthy enough to defend itself.

They have to live with Russia. We don’t. And that’s a fact that will be obvious long after this crisis over.

[RedHeeler]

We don’t have to live with Russia? How is that possible, even short term?

[elhombrelibre]

I see your point, but I doubt if Russia is willing to let these votes occur inside Russia where Russians are not the majority. It’s a tool they want to use to weaken Ukraine; it’s not a sincere concern for the poor Russian speakers.

[nathanbedford]

Agreed, Vladimir Puritan's regime is a Mafia with no concern for the the the yearnings of any of the peoples of the former Soviet Union.

[elhombrelibre]

You may not know this, but Debka isn't always the most reliable website. You'll have to temper your enthusiasm for a little longer. Kiev has not given up yet.

There is, to be sure, a good chance that blood is flowing today. So you can be happy about that.

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-ukraine-official-antiterrorist-operation-launched-20140413,0,3694525.story#axzz2ykvpniGW

[Jimmy Valentine]

You are right Ukraine will still be a separate country but a Russian satellite in fact. Smart move by Putin we have no leverage

[Monmouth78]

The EU has over three times the population of Russia and an even bigger lead in money.

[goldstategop]

The EU though has no real military muscle and no way to stand up to Russia.

Today’s debacle in Slaviansk have only underlined the vital importance of Ukraine in Moscow.

[Georgia Girl 2]

This is nothing for us to get ourselves in a twist about.

Right now the we live in the Democratic Socialist States of Amerika. We need to get our Constitutional Republic back before we worry about Russia and the Ukraine.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Seems a likely outcome, but is there a source other than Debka?

[Mike Darancette]

This is a big win for Moscow and a major defeat for the West.

I Imagine that in all but a few large cities in the East of Ukraine a vote to join Russia would lose. So will these cities be Russian enclaves within the Federal districts? There choice is either to be part of Europe or Asia.

[Mike Darancette]

At the risk of sounding (gasp!) Wilsonian, what's wrong with countenancing the self-determination of peoples?

The government offices of the Oblasts the Russians want to steal have been captured by Russian troops. What type of self determination does that allow? The Majority Ukrainian populations will be suppressed if not cleansed.