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Harry Reidís Crony Capitalism Behind Showdown With Nevada Rancher?
Townhall.com ^ | April 14, 2014 | Rachel Alexander

Posted on 04/14/2014 4:53:59 AM PDT by Kaslin

The major news media, with the exception of Fox News, has been deafeningly quiet about the federal government’s thwarted raid last week on a Nevada rancher. Heavily-armed agents from the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) descended upon Cliven Bundy’s ranch, seizing 389 of his 900 cattle. The BLM shut off access to federal lands, claiming he was illegally using them, and a no-fly zone was established for a 3-mile-square area around Bundy’s ranch. A sign was posted - unconstitutionally - limiting the First Amendment to a small designated area. The feds flew helicopters overhead to chase the cattle, knowing full well it could cause them to collapse from running in the 90-degree heat.

Outraged over the heavy-handed tactics, about 1,000 states’ rights activists traveled to Mesquite to support Bundy. Many gun owners showed up lawfully carrying firearms, and local cowboys came riding in on horses. They were afraid that they could be the next targets of a federal government overreach, and felt it was time to take a stand. A few protesters stormed the gate that had been erected to block off federal land, while the crowd chanted “open that gate.” At one point, the protesters blocked all traffic on Interstate 15.

Bundy’s son, Ammon, was shot with a stun gun by law enforcement until he bled, and his sister was pushed to the ground, which was caught on video. Bundy’s son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated. He is now reporting a concussion and kidney problems after being stomped on. One man from Utah who joined the protest said he was handcuffed and injured by BLM agents when he attempted to walk through a gated area. Bundy estimates there were approximately 100 law enforcement vehicles and 200 law enforcement officials involved with the raid.

The protesters did not draw their weapons nor attack law enforcement, and Ammon prohibited rifles within the camp. Bundy likened the siege to the 1993 disaster in Waco, Texas, where mostly federal law enforcement agencies descended upon the Branch Davidians compound, resulting in the deaths of 76. It has also being compared to federal law enforcement agents staking out militia members at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, where an unarmed woman holding a baby was shot. Taking place in the Nevada town of Bunkerville, patriots are noting similarities to the American Revolutionary War’s Battle of Bunker Hill.

In response, commissioners in Utah threatened to remove one wild horse for every cow seized of Bundy’s. In Utah, the federal government has been attempting to reduce cattle grazing in order to protect wild horses. Escalating the showdown was a remark Clark County Commissioner Tom Collins made to Utah County Commissioner Darn Bushman. He warned supporters of Bundy planning to come from Utah that those “inbred bastards” “better have funeral plans.”

The dispute began in 1993, when the BLM interfered with Bundy’s grazing rights, citing protection of the Mojave Desert tortoise. It is not clear how cattle are a threat to the tortoise. As Dave Barry would say, “I am not making this up.” They capped his herd to 150 animals on a 250-square-mile rangeland allotment. When Bundy saw his grazing fees were no longer being used to help ranchers, but to thwart them, he stopped paying monthly federal land fees of $1.35 per cow-calf pair, insisting that local government, not the BLM, should be in control of the lands.

Bundy claims that other ranchers were bought out by the federal government. He is now the last remaining rancher left on a 600,000-acre portion of land known as Gold Butte, managed by the BLM. Bundy said he attempted to make payments to the county, as he’d done in the past until the BLM unilaterally took over, but the county turned him down.

Bundy’s family has raised cows on the land since the 1870s. The BLM was established much later in 1946. Cozy with federal judges, beginning in 1998, the BLM began to get rubber-stamped court orders requiring Bundy to remove his animals.

Republican Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval denounced the BLM for its heavy-handed tactics, saying the federal government had created an atmosphere of intimidation. Sen. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) decried the restriction of First Amendment protests, saying it “tramples upon Nevadans’ fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution.”

This siege likely has very little to do with protecting the desert tortoise, but is something much more nefarious. Journalist Dana Loesch reports that Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) purposely pushed the BLM to initiate the power grab, intent on controlling Nevada land as a payback to his top donor and special interests. It is no coincidence that the current director of the BLM, Neil Kornze, is a former senior advisor to Reid.

The federal government already owns 84 percent of the land in Nevada. The BLM frequently gives waivers for wind or solar power development in areas where the desert tortoise is found. The desert tortoise has the least serious designation of endangered species, “vulnerable.” It is not considered “critically endangered” or even “endangered.” In fact, in 2013, the BLM announced it was going to euthanize hundreds of tortoises due to budget restrictions.

This is not the first time ranchers have had conflict with the federal government’s increasingly expansive control over government lands. The Sagebrush Rebellion during the 1970s and 1980s frequently pitted cattle ranchers against the BLM and environmental activists. No doubt many of these current land grabs are being done in order to force people out of rural areas and into the cities, as part of Agenda 21’s vague goals of making the earth more “sustainable.”

In 2012, investigative reporter Marcus Stern blew open a deal Reid and his son had arranged with a Chinese company to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert. The BLM helpfully expressed its opinion that trespassing cattle would need to be removed in order to make way for the deal. Although the project ultimately failed, it represents part of a pattern by Reid to seize land to give to special interests in order to benefit himself, his family and campaign contributors. Similarly, in 2010, Reid’s campaign received thousands of dollars in donations from a Texas wind farm’s backers, which Reid rewarded with $450 million in federal stimulus funds.

The BLM admits that Bundy is not the only rancher who is violating federal grazing regulations, just one of the more serious cases. Clearly, Bundy was singled out and targeted. Senior BLM rangeland management specialist Bob Bolton said that the BLM only performs about four livestock impoundments a year, involving only a few dozen animals at most. He observed, “What we're doing this week in Nevada is not the norm at all.”

Although federal agents finally backed off and returned the cows, the BLM says Bundy still owes over $1 million in grazing fees and penalties, and will try to collect it administratively. Why wasn’t this approach taken initially, instead of wasting $3 million of taxpayers’ money on the failed heavily-armed seizure? Bundy thinks it is because he’s not a Reid donor.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Front Page News; US: Nevada
KEYWORDS: blm; bundy; bundyranch; cattle; corruption; dingyharryreid; harryreid; reid

1 posted on 04/14/2014 4:53:59 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

“...those inbred bastards better have funeral plans.”

A Macho-man junior-high-school Progressive at work or some guy just trying to to his job?

Just asking.

IMHO


2 posted on 04/14/2014 4:59:18 AM PDT by ripley
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To: Kaslin

impeach Reid!!


3 posted on 04/14/2014 5:09:32 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Kaslin

I’m sure it’s already been said, but why couldn’t they deploy as rapidly against the Bengazi insurgents as they did for this rancher? HMMMM?????


4 posted on 04/14/2014 5:12:22 AM PDT by NRA1995 (I'd rather be a living "gun culture" member than a dead anti-gun candy-ass.)
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To: Kaslin

So when does Reid and his corrupt son go to prison? Who gave Reid the power to send armed forces against Americans for the Chinese?


5 posted on 04/14/2014 5:13:53 AM PDT by IC Ken
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To: IC Ken
Who gave Reid the power to send armed forces against Americans for the Chinese?

Or for any reason....

6 posted on 04/14/2014 5:17:00 AM PDT by just me (GOD BLESS AMERICA Amen)
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To: just me

Either barak approved or Reid acted alone.
None of these people respect the laws meant to constrain them.

Flexibility


7 posted on 04/14/2014 5:19:44 AM PDT by Texas resident (The democrat party is now the CPUSA)
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To: ripley

Major clean up scheduled for January, 2015.


8 posted on 04/14/2014 5:25:53 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Rip it out by the roots.)
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To: Kaslin

De reiding is a cleansing process.

in November, the senate leadership will be dereided.

Knowing that Dingy Harry forced tehe issue and failed


9 posted on 04/14/2014 5:30:58 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: Kaslin

“...Clark County Commissioner Tom Collins... warned supporters of Bundy planning to come from Utah that those “inbred bastards” “better have funeral plans.”

Why have I not yet read about this Tom Collins resigning in disgrace?


10 posted on 04/14/2014 6:19:29 AM PDT by Junk Silver
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To: Kaslin

I think Bundy needs to file suit against the BLM for damages, and all those who had phone confiscated need to join that suit.


11 posted on 04/14/2014 6:24:22 AM PDT by McGavin999
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To: ripley

I live in N Nevada. There is a large Mormon population in the state of Nevada.

IF this commissioner were from MY county,m I would be enraged.

I won’t say that OUR county commissioners are perfect, but I don’t think any of them would say something like this near a reporter.


12 posted on 04/14/2014 7:21:05 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: Kaslin

I’d like the Koch brothers to print a scathing reply to Harry Reed in all the major publications, regarding his criminal and treasonous activities.


13 posted on 04/14/2014 9:18:23 AM PDT by Old Yeller (In Latin, the word sinister means left. Which is appropriate for left-wingers.)
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To: ridesthemiles

“If this commissioner were from MY county, I would be enraged.”

Imagine such a veiled threat from ANY American commissioner, in any state of the union.

But, alas, this may not be an American who made the threat.
(Maybe a future commissar, or re-education camp counselor.)

IMHO


14 posted on 04/14/2014 11:33:15 AM PDT by ripley
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To: IC Ken

When we the people keep putting these reprobates back in office,then we ask what’s going on...


15 posted on 04/14/2014 6:30:17 PM PDT by primrose (PRIMROSE)
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To: Kaslin; xzins; Ray76; BuckeyeTexan; All

Excerpt:

The dispute began in 1993, when the BLM interfered with Bundy’s grazing rights, citing protection of the Mojave Desert tortoise. It is not clear how cattle are a threat to the tortoise. As Dave Barry would say, “I am not making this up.” They capped his herd to 150 animals on a 250-square-mile rangeland allotment. When Bundy saw his grazing fees were no longer being used to help ranchers, but to thwart them, he stopped paying monthly federal land fees of $1.35 per cow-calf pair, insisting that local government, not the BLM, should be in control of the lands.

Bundy claims that other ranchers were bought out by the federal government. He is now the last remaining rancher left on a 600,000-acre portion of land known as Gold Butte, managed by the BLM. Bundy said he attempted to make payments to the county, as he’d done in the past until the BLM unilaterally took over, but the county turned him down.

Bundy’s family has raised cows on the land since the 1870s. The BLM was established much later in 1946. Cozy with federal judges, beginning in 1998, the BLM began to get rubber-stamped court orders requiring Bundy to remove his animals.

Republican Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval denounced the BLM for its heavy-handed tactics, saying the federal government had created an atmosphere of intimidation. Sen. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) decried the restriction of First Amendment protests, saying it “tramples upon Nevadans’ fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution.”

This siege likely has very little to do with protecting the desert tortoise, but is something much more nefarious. Journalist Dana Loesch reports that Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) purposely pushed the BLM to initiate the power grab, intent on controlling Nevada land as a payback to his top donor and special interests. It is no coincidence that the current director of the BLM, Neil Kornze, is a former senior advisor to Reid.

The federal government already owns 84 percent of the land in Nevada. The BLM frequently gives waivers for wind or solar power development in areas where the desert tortoise is found. The desert tortoise has the least serious designation of endangered species, “vulnerable.” It is not considered “critically endangered” or even “endangered.” In fact, in 2013, the BLM announced it was going to euthanize hundreds of tortoises due to budget restrictions.


16 posted on 04/15/2014 2:34:27 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Kaslin

Good, more news outlets are picking this up, even if the main stream media won’t. Harry Reid and his cronies need to be held accountable.

F*** the democrat party and all the corruption they rode in on.

CGato


17 posted on 04/15/2014 2:59:47 PM PDT by Conservative Gato
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To: ripley
Illegal aliens can come here and blatantly mock OUR rule of law...

But ONE rancher decides to take a stand over a FedGov intent on driving him out of business using the "rule of law" which is more of the "rule of regulation" to screw to him over.

And all of sudden, he is the Bad Guy here....

18 posted on 04/15/2014 3:20:21 PM PDT by GraceG
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To: Kaslin
Escalating the showdown was a remark Clark County Commissioner Tom Collins made to Utah County Commissioner Darn Bushman. He warned supporters of Bundy planning to come from Utah that those “inbred bastards” “better have funeral plans.”

Sounds like Clark County needs a new Commissioner, this is far over the top; insults and a clear threat. We the people need to remember this is an elected official's response to people exercising their rights to protest/support a fellow citizen.

19 posted on 04/15/2014 3:26:14 PM PDT by Tammy8
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To: Jim Robinson

The BLM is nothing but a bunch of crooks


20 posted on 04/15/2014 3:26:20 PM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Kaslin

Just who are the Nevadans who keep re-electing him? It has to be stuffing the ballot box.


21 posted on 04/15/2014 4:42:31 PM PDT by CincyRichieRich (A government of the people and by the people...)
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To: CincyRichieRich

Questions of Voting Fraud in Support of Sen. Harry Reid’s Re-election
Posted in Corruption Harry Reid with 1 comment
Although we don’t have any other information regarding this particular situation regarding pre-marked ballots for Harry Reid, what is known is that there have been countless” attempts particularly by far-left groups including those funded by George Soros and ACORN to perpetrate high volume voter fraud. This is a very serious problem which can have the effect of “disenfranchising” millions of voters on the right side of the aisle.
We must remain highly suspicious and vigilant.
Nevada Voters Say Reid’s Name Checked for Them on Touch-Screen Ballots
October 26, 2010 | FoxNews.com
Voters in one Nevada city are complaining that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s name was already checked when they went to cast their ballots in early voting Monday, according to Fox5Vegas.com.
Voters in Boulder City said they were trying to vote for Republican nominee Sharron Angle, but that Reid’s name was checked when they got to the electronic voting machines.
“Something’s not right,” voter Joyce Ferrara told the network, saying several people reported the same problem. “One person that’s a fluke. Two, that’s strange. But several within a five-minute period of time — that’s wrong.”
A Clark County voting official said highly sensitive touch-screens may be to blame and that fraud is not the issue.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/26/nevada-voters-say-reids-checked-touch-screen-ballots/
- See more at: http://www.saveyourrights.com/corruption/questions-of-voting-fraud-in-support-of-sen-harry-reids-re-election/#sthash.cjQzH5ws.dpuf


22 posted on 04/15/2014 5:38:29 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: Kaslin

“...Republican Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval denounced the BLM for its heavy-handed tactics,..”

I notice he didn’t send any State Police to help Mr. Bundy.

“Denouncing” isn’t enough. Send people to help, then we’ll know which side you’re on.


23 posted on 04/16/2014 5:06:36 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: ripley

“...A Macho-man junior-high-school Progressive at work or some guy just trying to to his job?...”

Since it was such a stupid thing to say, in a situation already volatile, I’d put money on the “macho-man junior progressive”.

I hope the people of Nevada who showed to help the Bundys remember this guy’s name and face.


24 posted on 04/16/2014 5:08:12 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: just me
Sounds like Reid needs more than impeachment.

They need to host a necktie party with him as the guest of honor.

25 posted on 04/16/2014 6:53:33 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: All
.....news reports say Sen Harry Reid and his son Rory are involved with the Chi/Coms to bring Chinese solar operations to the Nevada desert. If Senator Reid is using his privileged Senate position, government power and connections to aid the BLM in its threatening actions against American citizens, then Sen Reid needs to be ejected from the U.S. Senate.....

This may or may not be connected to the Solar Panel venture---but the energy connection pops out at you....as does the Clintons' connection to terrorism, and to China.

=============================================

HARRY REID IS LIVID THAT HIS GRAND-DAUGHTER HAS BEEN OUTED AS A RECIPIENT OF LAUNDERED CAMPAIGN CASH---Reid lashed out at reporters, saying, “My granddaughter has been the target of harassing phone calls, strangers tracking her down, knocking on her door and negative, unwanted attention on the Internet.” “This has gone too far and it needs to stop now,” Reid said. “I deeply regret any role I had in creating this situation but now, as a grandparent, I say enough is enough.”

============================================

Besides the "jewelry company" financed by her grandfather, Ryan Elisabeth Reid runs the Sprat Theater Company, a small theater in Brooklyn, which is also coming under scrutiny. According to Sprat’s Theatre Company Web site, it has received grants/contributions from:

<><> the Clinton Global Initiative (connected to global terrorism via Muslim Brotherhood employee),
<><> two major Las Vegas foundations:
Caesar’s Foundation, and the NV Energy Foundation.

NOTE NV Energy Foundation---is a non-profit division of NV Energy (a public utility). The NV Energy utility is a subsidiary of MidAmerican Energy Holdings Company which took over in 2013.

NEED TO KNOW Did Harry Reid use US government power, US govt agencies, his Senate office, and/or tax resources to enrich any of the above-named energy-related entities?

=================================================

NEED TO KNOW Did Harry Reid use US government power, US govt agencies, his Senate office, and/or tax resources to enrich the multiple corporations connected to tax-exempt Caesar's Foundation? Did any of its principles, trustees and staff contribute to Harry Reid?

Caesar's Foundation Trustees

Chair Janet Beronio

Vice-Chair Jan Jones

Trustee Diane Wilfong

Trustee Tom Jenkin

Trustee Fred Keeton

Trustee Dan Nita

Trustee John Payne

Caesar's Foundation Staff

Executive Director Thom Reilly

Administrator Judi Brown

Secretary / Legal Scott Wiegand

Treasurer Torben Cohrs

Community Affairs Gwen Migita

=========================================

email: enforcement @SEC.gov

==================================================

The SEC and IRS should examine every document filed by (a) The Clinton Global Initiative, (b) Caesar's Foundation and (c) The NV Energy Foundation.

Every official tax-exempt document needs to be scrutinized in conjunction w/ possible connections to Harry Reid. /

Perjury, forgery, govt fraud, and voter fraud need to be considered. For example: people may have been coached to lie on voter registration forms, and perhaps candidacy papers falsified.

Falsifying Official Public Documents involves altering, changing, or modifying a document for the purpose of deception.......can also involve forgery and/or passing copies of false documents. Falsifying documents is usually done in connection with broader criminal aims, such as extortion, government fraud, tax evasion, money laundering, financing terrorism........

================================================

BTW, here's Harry w/ his grand-daughter....the one who got $31,000 in laundered campaign funds for her (ahem) "jewelry company."

Reid and granddaughter Ryan Elisabeth Reid.
Photo: UPI (left) and Instagram (right).

So if you see Ryan on the street, be nice, and say hello.

26 posted on 04/16/2014 9:11:54 AM PDT by Liz
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To: All
Latest reports have Harry's son, Rory Reid, threatning The Bundys w/ prosecution. We also hear Rory Reid represents the Chinese Solar Panel company that wants the Bundy land.

Mmmmmm....methinks Rory and Harry are gonna be real sorry they are in bed w/ the Chi/Coms. It's gonna get v-e-r-y nasty, guys.

============================================

We don't need to steenken' AG Dummycrat ***-protector to get to the bottom of this.

Under the Bank Secrecy Act, passed by Congress, banks are required to establish, implement and maintain programs designed to detect and report suspicious activity indicative of money laundering and other financial crimes.

“The Bank Secrecy Act was enacted to protect the public from harm by identifying and detecting money laundering from criminal enterprises, terrorism, tax evasion or other unlawful activities,” the special agent in charge for Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigation, explained.

==================================================

L/E needs to examine the Reid bank accounts used to finance the Solar Panel business.

NOTE WELL The "Bank Secrecy Act" was passed to protect the public from harm by identifying and detecting criminal enterprises, money laundering, tax evasion, national security breaches, global terrorism, or other unlawful activities.

Under the Bank Secrecy Act, banks are required to establish, implement and maintain programs designed to detect and report suspicious activity that might be indicative of govt fraud, money laundering, embezzlement, tax evasion, and other financial crimes.

<><> Joint Reid bank accounts might be used to facilitate the transfer of funds offshore and/or into secret LLC accounts.

<><> To cover their tracks, fake invoices might be created to show that money deposited into other accounts was being used for legitimate purposes.

The scheme might be advanced by issuing phony statements of payments that actually covered the transfer of funds for business activities (or into campaign coffers).

<><> L/E is directed to get ahold of Reid's: (1) check copies, (2) wire transfers, (3) account statements, (4) invoices, (5) bills, (6) delivery tickets, (7) correspondence including e-mail, contracts, loan agreements, and, (8) any other books or records.

L/E should also explore (a) monies Reid paid to brokers, sub-brokers, (b) family members, (c) mortgage brokers, (d) financial managers, and, (e) real estate agents, brokers, and developers.

<><> L/E should scrutinize Reid bank accounts for suspicious activites: (A) large deposits, (B) funds transferred from one account into another, (C) frequent requests for withdrawals.

<><> Bank records might also show diversions to secret LLC accounts, to operate othe4r businesses. Bank fraud can also be facilitated by withdrawals, gift cards purchases, credit card purchases and intrabank transfers from secret accounts into personal accounts.

<><> A huge tipoff is whether bank withdrawals support payments for real estate, investment and stock holdings, or campaign contributions.

Nevada taxpayers, patriots, ranchers and Bundy supporters should demand the Bank Secrecy Act be used to prosecute bank fraud pronto.

================================================

ADDENDUM Govt monies facilitated by Harry Reid may have been allocated through budget items to finance the Solar Panel venture.

27 posted on 04/16/2014 9:14:33 AM PDT by Liz
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To: ilovesarah2012
Thanks for the link.

Nevada taxpayers, patriots, ranchers, and Bundy supporters should demand to see E-V-E-R-Y official document filed by Harry Reid. Documents need to be scrutinized for falsification, forgery, bank fraud, possibly govt fraud, campaign fraud and voter fraud.

Falsifying Government Documents involves altering, changing, or modifying a document for the purpose of deception.......can also involve forgery and/or passing copies of false documents. Falsifying documents is usually done in connection with broader criminal aims, such as extortion, government fraud, tax evasion, money laundering, financing terrorism........

Types of documents commonly falsified may include:
◾Tax returns and income statements
◾Personal checks
◾Bank account records
◾Business record keeping books
◾Immigration documents (such as visas, passports, etc.)
◾Identification cards and birth certificates

Many different types of acts can be considered as falsifying a document, including:
◾Altering or misrepresenting factual information such as prices or monetary amounts
◾Stating false information when requested to provide truthful statements
◾Forging a signature
◾Using official letterheads without authorization
◾Concealing assets or property WRT obtaining federal/state grants))
◾Knowingly using or distributing a fake document

A person can only be held criminally liable if they are deliberately acting with the intention of deceiving or defrauding another party.

Falsifying documents is a very serious offense and is generally classified as a felony. This means that a person charged with falsifying documents may be subject to the following legal penalties:
◾Having to pay a monetary fine
◾Incarceration in a prison facility

Depending on the gravity of the offense, as well as individual state laws, falsifying documents can result in a prison sentence of 5-10 years. Also, if government documents or authorities were involved, the legal penalties may be more severe. ..... legal penalties may increase with repeat offenses.

The penalty for falsifying government documents is outlined in the Crimes Act of 1958.

28 posted on 04/16/2014 9:19:35 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Jim Robinson; Kaslin; xzins; Ray76
I've researched the details of this case extensively. It's as interesting to me as the NBC issue - legally speaking.

Cliven Bundy paid grazing fees to the BLM for decades before he tried to pay Clark County. When the terms of his grazing rights became unacceptable to him in 1993, he objected to the contract by refusing to file a new application for grazing rights, but he continued to graze his cattle on land that he acknowledges is not his. He disputes who should own it. My issue with him is that he raised no such issue until he was denied access to the land.

Under our current system of contract law, his cattle are trespassing on federal/public land. ( The land owner gets to decide who may enter the property. Since the BLM says the cattle can't be on the land, the cattle are trespassing- legally speaking.)

Yes, our FF were considered lawbreakers. That is not in dispute. Yes, the federal government displayed an unconscionable show of force to remove cattle. That is not in dispute. How then should Cliven Bundy resolve his differences with the BLM? That is the question - at least until another legal question is posed.

29 posted on 04/16/2014 11:00:02 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: NRA1995

Or against the illegals who are crossing the border and trashing the land by the hundreds every single day.


30 posted on 04/16/2014 11:02:31 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: Jim Robinson; Kaslin; xzins; Ray76

I wish we had risen up in defense of Lou Pelletier when the State of Massachusetts stole his daughter Justina from him. Maybe it’s not too late to do so. Think the feds would make a show of force to deny parents their daughter?


31 posted on 04/16/2014 11:11:15 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: BuckeyeTexan; Jim Robinson; Kaslin; P-Marlowe; Ray76
How then should Cliven Bundy resolve his differences with the BLM?

What we are saying is that the federal government has no business owning that land.

32 posted on 04/16/2014 11:17:03 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

For one, he’s protesting the federal government “owning” something like 86% of the “public” land in Nevada. And the fact that they have driven the public OFF said public land through their anti-public, anti-liberty policies. And why are they doing this? First excuse was environmentalism. And now it’s “green” energy. But the underlying reason, as always, is pure old fashioned greed, corruption and lust for power. Politicians doing favors for well-heeled or corporate donors, even foreign entities or governments, or even flat out bribery. They did the same against logging and mining. Even recreational use of the public land. Nothing good can come out of this unconstitutional policy. Ever!

I stand 100% for the Bundys and their fellow Nevadians and the ranchers, loggers, miners, farmers, fishermen, water users, recreational users and all freedom lovers throughout the west who are being deprived of the use of their public lands and waters. The federal government should immediately return all so-called BLM lands and waterways over to the respective state governments. And that is in line with the constitution. The federales have no legal constitutional authority whatsoever to lord it over the states or the people.

Fascism must never be allowed to take root in America.


33 posted on 04/16/2014 11:23:22 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: xzins; Jim Robinson; Kaslin; P-Marlowe; Ray76

Based on my reseach, that is indeed a valid assertion.


34 posted on 04/16/2014 12:49:38 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: Jim Robinson

BTTT


35 posted on 04/16/2014 12:53:40 PM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Jim Robinson

I believe you are correct. My research indicates that the federal government imposed an unconstitional requirement for statehood upon Nevada to disclaim all rights and title to the lands puchased from Mexico under the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo when it did not do so for other states. (e.g. Texas)

You know how I feel about Texas sovereignty and States’ Rights. I believe Nevada has a constitutional right to those lands.


36 posted on 04/16/2014 12:56:15 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: Jim Robinson

Is it folly for me to look toward the Constitution to attempt to find support for Cliven Bundy and to find support for opposing the federal ownership of lands in Nevada? Is it as simple as a moral right versus moral wrong?

I find myself wanting to justify Cliven Bundy’s actions legally. Is that necessary?


37 posted on 04/16/2014 1:05:19 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: Kaslin
Bundy said he attempted to make payments to the county, as he’d done in the past until the BLM unilaterally took over, but the county turned him down

hadn't heard that until now.

38 posted on 04/16/2014 1:09:19 PM PDT by uncitizen
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To: Kaslin
Capitalism is a good word, but the word cronyism isn't.

The Left loves to corrupt word usage to promote their agendas. They joined the two above terms in order to slander their great anti-communist bugaboo...capitalism.

We should call it simply "Cronyism", which is what it is. Unfortunately, the Left's Crony-MSM have been training the masses with this term for so long, that it may be difficult to wash it away.

(This is not my idea; but, for the life of me, I can't seem to find where I read it.)

39 posted on 04/16/2014 1:16:52 PM PDT by Scooter100
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To: Scooter100

An interesting take on the differences between fascism, communism and crony-capitalism:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-16/whats-difference-between-fascism-communism-and-crony-capitalism-nothing


40 posted on 04/16/2014 1:32:41 PM PDT by NOVACPA
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To: BuckeyeTexan

These lands should be state lands, homesteaded off or sold off. Constitutionally. The fascist federal government is acting tyrannically when they use corrupt, bankrupting policies to try to force these families off the land they homesteaded, settled and worked for over 100 years. End of story.

And, as I posted before, it’s definitely a plan. They did the same thing to miners, loggers, oilmen, farmers, water users, and even recreational users. The Marxist/fascists, progressives, environmentalists, etc, are trying to lock up all public land and waters for their own greedy devices. And it’s not just federal “public” land. They’re now controlling how you use state public land and private property, even to the point of confiscating it.


41 posted on 04/16/2014 1:41:14 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: NOVACPA
Thanks! That may or may not be the article I read. Never-the-less, we still should be more aware of how the Left twist the meaning of words to their own benefit. In this case, Cronyism is giving Capitalism a bad name, by their own design.

Your suggested article compares the difference between "Fascism, Communism and Crony-Capitalism", but maybe it should also look at "Crony-Fascism, Crony-Communism, etc. If you know what I mean. You NEVER see "Crony-" being added to "Communism", just like you never see "Left-wing" or "Socialist" or "Progressive" being added to a Dem Congressman's name in an MSM/TV interview.

Of course, we've had a few successes in the terminology department too....."ObamaCare", which stuck like glue, is particularly heart-warming!!

42 posted on 04/16/2014 1:57:59 PM PDT by Scooter100
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To: Jim Robinson; Grimmy
These lands should be state lands, homesteaded off or sold off. Constitutionally.

So, 10th Amendment rights? Is that what we are asserting? The states formed the federal government not the other way around (channeling Judge Napolitano.) Therefore, states have equal footing when admitted to statehood and cannot be forced to agree to conditions that were not applied equally to every state when it joined the Union.

Because I can support that Constitutionally, legally, and morally.

Full disclosure - I have preciously asserted that this is not a States' Rights issue. (Note: That was before I found support for Grimmy's argument.)

43 posted on 04/16/2014 2:22:39 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

It’s definitely a states rights, 10th amendment issue.


44 posted on 04/16/2014 2:24:53 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson; BuckeyeTexan; xzins

And for anyone who thinks the Feds have an ownership right based on the property clause or the treaty clause please not that the Bill of Rights superceeds both of those clauses.

The instances in which the federal government can own real property within the borders of a sovereign stare are enumerated in the constitution. They are not permitted to own property within a state in order to prevent access by cattle or to sell it off to China for a joint venture with the relatives of the Senate Majority Leader.


45 posted on 04/16/2014 2:51:44 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds)
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