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To: dfwgator
Be fair, Benes didn't have much say, England and France basically pushed him out of the way in Munich.

Benes had an army to do his talking for him. He didn't have to involve Britain and France. Historians blame Britain and France, but it was a weak-kneed Benes that allowed them to dictate terms. Czechoslovakia had a pre-war population of 15m (triple Switzerland's) and a thriving arms industry. Note that the Swiss did not ask Britain and France for their opinion about whether to submit to Germany. Czechoslovakia had hundreds of thousands of Jews who could probably have been relied on to fight to the death. It could have declared itself a sanctuary for Jews, contingent on military service by a male member of the family. Bottom line is that Benes wimped out, and the nation suffered the consequences.

10 posted on 04/16/2014 10:02:06 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

“Benes had an army to do his talking for him.”

And one of the most heavily-defensible lines in the world, the “Benes Wall”, high up in the mountains.

What they didn’t have was a good lowlands defense, or the ability to keep German Aircraft from flattening the cities.

There was also severe ethnic internal strife, a collapsing economy, and the government was on the verge of complete bankruptcy.

There was a LOT more going on in Czechoslovakia than just “Hitler wanted it”.


14 posted on 04/16/2014 10:45:07 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Zhang Fei

If the Ukraine government cannot even command the loyalty of its troops, it has a diminished claim to being a sovereign state. They should perhaps come to some accommodation with the

It’s Russian ethnics do not appear to want rule from Kiev, and we/NATO cannot force them to be. This is part of the Russian sphere unlike Czech lands which were Kingdom of Bohemia since before Charlemagne and then Austro-Hungarian Empire, never a part of “Germany”. Ukraine was part of Russian Empire since Charlemagne, more or less..


22 posted on 04/16/2014 11:23:16 AM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: Zhang Fei
"Bottom line is that Benes wimped out, and the nation suffered the consequences."

Was that the Czech Republic or Slovakia Benes was representing? Czechoslovakia was a shotgun wedding of a nation from the start created in the aftermath of WWI just like the current Ukraine is a shotgun wedding of a nation created in the wake of the Cold War.

You do know that when they could do as they damn well pleased Czechoslovakia became two countries, don't you?

If Benes was the problem, then by extension the losers who are now pretending to run the Ukraine are the problem. So, the solution is have Americans fight to support obvious losers who have good intentions?

Oh, I forgot, you assert that people who can say, "been there, done that", are unqualified to consider such matters.

What's wrong with a Ukraine and a, I dunno, what would they call themselves, Donbas is the region?, so the nation of Donbas as two separate countries?

Can countries decide their own fate without being bombed into agreeing with the European elites who run the EU and NATO?

Is self-determination only for puppets of or members of the EU and/or NATO or is it for everyone?

Why is it good when NATO, US, or UN, troops impose a government on a sovereign nation but not good when a sovereign nation decides to have a tidy and fairly bloodless little Civil War of sorts to work out their own problems?

Why are operatives from the EU and NATO being in the Ukraine no big deal but Russian ones being there just horrible? I mean, sending troops is pretty much sending operatives, no? (and if there aren't US/NATO people on the ground there already it'll be a break from the norm)

Say the US and NATO ride to the aide of the Ukraine and it's like Hungary in '56 but with us on the receiving end, would that be "proof" that evil Russians are resisting us or would it just be proof that Ukrainians want to settle their own problems their own way without the EU, NATO, the US, or anyone else with no "ethnic" stake in the matter mucking around in their business?

And while I think of it, what's to keep aid to the Ukraine from leading to the same sort of thing that freedom fighters in Syria are doing where, with stomachs full of US MREs and US supplied arms and ammunition, Mooze Lames are butchering whole towns full of men, women, and children?

US advisers? The innate kindness of the Ukrainian people who didn't bat an eye at Nazi atrocities during WWII? Or, is it that as long as "ethnic Russians" are on the receiving end it's no big deal just like it was no big deal as long as Jews were on the receiving end? You know, nipping the risks to Ukrainian security in the bud. The kind of thing "disarming ethnic Russians" implies.

26 posted on 04/16/2014 12:03:32 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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