Posted on 04/18/2014 12:36:55 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
Self-declared people’s provisional governments: In Eastern Ukraine, protests against the Turchynov-Yatsenyuk government have led to the declarations of “People’s Republics” with “provisional governments” in the oblasti of Donetsk, Lugansk, and Kharkov. The Kiev-appointed governors have effectively lost authority in these regions which are practically controlled entirely by the rebels. Kiev claims that the rebels are “agents of Moscow.” Moscow disavows any involvement. In truth, there are Russians who are involved in the Eastern Ukrainian unrest, but these are not “government agents” but rather Russian nationalists who seek to assist their “compatriots” from across the border.
(Excerpt) Read more at reconsideringrussia.org ...
Note his use of a map of Novorussiya being discussed as the Ukrainian territories being discussed as Russia's irredenta and claimed by Putin in his recent televised speech to Russia. http://reconsideringrussia.org/2014/03/02/what-is-ukraine/novorossiya/
Rebels control Kiev
When rebels call rebels rebels its time to take the irony stew off of the stovetop.
By all accounts, even ever-lying Russians admit that majority of population in every region of Ukraine wants to stay in Ukraine. If Russian orcs were not sent in to ignite the violence, the new compromises would be made and consensus found. The key is: Russia doesn’t want stable, reach and happy neighbors - that would show Russians there is another life besides slavery and vodka.
Or are rebels rebelling against the rebels not rebels? My head is spinning.
I'm just an outsider, observing from afar as history unfolds in real time. It does seem that the only group that has shown any semblence of ability to organize things themselves and govern are those fighting for independence in Donetsk.
“Rebels control Kiev”
That is a false statement. The people of the Ukraine were represented in the Government of the Ukraine by their elected Deputies in the Ukrainian parliament. President Yanukovych was removed from office by the parliament and its elected Deputies, becuase of the crimes committed by President Yanukovych and the government ministers he appointed.
Although the last Ukrainian constitution required the parliament to follow certain technical procedures to remove President Yanukovych from his office for the crimes he committed and the parliament did not complete those constitutional procedures, it must also be observed that President Yanukovych and his ministers obstructed the implementation of those same procedures using what is likely to also have been unconstitutional and perhaps criminal acts. It is even questoinable whether or not yanukovych was even elected lawfully or that he was lawfully inaugurated into office by unconstitional means. Consequently, it appears that whatever constitutional defects there may or may not have been with respect to how the parliament exercised its sovereign authority and powers in regard to enforcing the laws of the nation may be justified by other constitutional law placing the burden of resolving such issues upon the people’s elected Deputies. Accordingly, it was Yanukovych and his criminal accomplices who are the rebels against the sovereign will of the parliament and the Deputies representing the citizens of the Ukraine.
“The Ukraine government no longer exists. When you destroy a national government[....]”
Your statement is another propagandistic lie. The Ukrainian parliament is the elected govenment of the Ukraine before and after Yanukovych abandoned his presidential office to avoid criminal prosecutions for his crimes under the laws of the Ukraine. Just because Yanukovych abandoned his office and the parliament determined it was necessary to take official notice of his vacation of the presidential office does nothing to make the parliamentary government anmore non-existant than it was before President Yanukovych vacated his office. The Ukrainian parliament is the government of the Ukraine and always has been since its independence.
They're whining because other groups in the Ukraine are taking matters into their own hands and ignoring the rules which is exactly the same thing the Kiev crowd did to weasel into into power in the first place.
A crystal clear case of democrat fascist, "the rules are for thee, not for me" behavior.
Rubbish.
Exactly.... They knew they’d loose the next election too which is why they didn’t wait.
And yes whining is the only way to describe it.
Putin will tell us all, soon.
5.56mm
“Rubbish.”
We can agree your propaganistic statements are “Rubbish.”
“Say, Whiskey, they could have waited a few months for the scheduled elections. They didn’t, therefore they’re not the legitimate government however you spin the “I hate Putin” EU butt kissing bottle.”
You are repeating another propagandistic lie, because “they” were not given any opportunity to have “waited a few months for the scheduled elections.
The crisis was orchestrated and timed to occur when they did by the Rusisan intelligence services by coaching President Yanukovych to act when and how he did, because Putin decided he did not want the elections to take place this time. The complaints of vote fraud by Yanukovych’s Kremlin backed organizaton in the previous 2004 and 2010 elections finally drew too much domestic and international scrutiny. Further widespread vote fraud in the next election by Yanukovych threatened to cause him to be denied office in the aftermath of the next election, so Putin decided the election could not take place this time around. Instead, he deemed it was time to activate his intelligence and subversion networks in the Ukraine to provoke a false or real image of a civil war in the Ukraine as a pretext for a Russian military invasoin and intervention in the whole of the Ukraine. This Putin finalized in late February 2014when he sent an FSB Colonel General responsible for covert operations in the Ukraine to set in motion the final provocations and incidents in the Ukraine.
Nothing the protestors did in the Euromaidan prevented President Yanukovych from remaining in Kiev/Kyiv or elsewhere in the Ukraine with the protection of his Ukrainian and Russian bodyguards and facing any criminal charges levied against him as a consequence of his ordering the Berkut, including its Russian FSB/GRU assassins, to use sniper fire to kill unarmed Ukrainian protestors. President Yanukovich is the person responsible for abandoning his presidential office before the parliament ever had an opportunity to remove him from his presidential office. So, you cannot successfully blame the protestors for Yanukovych’s desertion of his office, his duties, and his obligation to face prosecution for his alleged criminal acts. The only parties who could have waited until the next election in these events are Putin and Yanukovych. Putin could have taken his chances with yanukovych’s election. yanukovych could have chosen to not abandon and desrt his office and duties when until the next election. These are decisions the Euromaidan protestors and the parliament did not have the power or opportunity to make, but Putin and Yanukovych did.
Worse still is the way you lie when you say in a disrespectful manner, “they’re not the legitimate government[....]” The Deputies of the parliament are the same “legitimate government” they were before President Yanukovych deserted his presidential office, so you have an impossible task to show anyone how the present parliament is somehow no longer “the legitimate government” it was previously. The Ukrainian parliament was a legitimate government before President Yanukovych deserted his office, and they were the same legitimate government after he deserted his office. So, you can halt your dissemination of your false propaganda
“They’re whining because other groups in the Ukraine are taking matters into their own hands and ignoring the rules which is exactly the same thing the Kiev crowd did to weasel into into power in the first place.”
Your statement is another propagandistic lie, because President Yanukovych removed himself from the office of the president before the legitimate parliament that already lawfull existed before these events occurred had an opportunity to confirm his removal from that presidential office. The Euromaidan protestors as theatening as you allege them to be still had no power or ability to forcibly remove President Yanukovych from his presidential office if he decided he would refuse to abandon his presidential office.
“A crystal clear case of democrat fascist, ‘the rules are for thee, not for me’ behavior.”
Your statement is another propagandist lie in the form of a strawman argument. It is Putin and Yanukovych who employed criminal and Fascist strategies, tactics, and policies against the citizens of the Ukraine as evidenced by the massive political and economic corruption of Yanukovych, his accomplices, and Putin. Putin’s regime and his Russian supporters are supported in their irredenta schemes and Novorussiya campaign by the Fascist National Bolshevist Party. Putin’s Fascists are already hard at work committing Fascist crimes against the Tatars of the Crimea and the Jews in the Ukrainian Oblasts Putin wished to conquer and annex as a reconstituted Novorussiya. The parallels with Hitler’s Fascist NAZI Party are very compelling.
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