Lavrov: US should face responsibility for powers it installed in Kiev

RT ^ | 4-21-2014 | Russia Toady

[elhombrelibre]

For your pay, for your contract...you could unionize and get Putin to pay you more.

[wetphoenix]

Ah, you are into personal attack again.
First, I’m against unions, and second I’m not working for Putin.

[elhombrelibre]

Why is it a personal attack? If you advocate his positions, you might as well cash in too.

[wetphoenix]

What of his positions I’m advocating?
You are on a same platform with Soros and Obama on Ukraine.
From your own positions I have to claim you are on their payroll, but I don’t.

[PieterCasparzen]

The Ukraine wants what the other former Soviet states have gotten since they joined the EU and since they got away from Russia. Compare Poland to Ukraine and see the difference in growth and economic development. Is there something more magical about the Poles that escapes the Ukrainians? I don’t think so. The political economy and stifling choke hold Russia keeps on Ukraine are the problem for Ukraine. The gangsters are the ruling elites in Russia and in Ukraine.

Ping (FYI) to my list because this is the first response regarding the "prosperity" of Poland.

The honeymoon is perhaps not yet completely over for Poland. But don't worry, the financial elites will see to it that it's wedding to the EU is consummated, with interest, even if all people of Polish don't yet realize just what's coming as a result of their shotgun nuptial. That's par for the course, because a healthy majority of the populations of America, the EU and the British Commonwealth still have not realized just how much they've been lied to, and just how dire a circumstance their financial masters are moving them towards.

Official rates of Polish unemployment are still "only" around 10%.

National debt, or Polish government borrowings continue to increase in absolute terms and as a percent of GDP.

As a short-term gimmick to enable them to proudly point to a lower national debt, the Polish government recently confiscated pension funds with Polish sovereign debt in their holdings, as a move to reduce the public debt:

From the Wall Street Journal:

Poland Cuts Public Debt by 9% of GDP

WARSAW—Poland cut its public debt on Monday below 50% of gross domestic product from some 58%, consummating a controversial change of its pension system that saw a transfer of sovereign bonds from private companies to the state.

Privately managed fund companies that are part of the public pension system transferred all of their Polish sovereign bondholdings and other assets worth a total of 153.15 billion zlotys ($48.9 billion) to the finance ministry, which redeemed them, Finance Minister Mateusz Szczurek said during a news conference Monday.

During Monday's unprecedented operation, in a matter of hours Poland cut its public debt by some 9% of its annual economic output.

The government pushed for the changes last year. It argued that the system introduced in 1999, in which private companies receive taxpayer money and invest it in stocks and bonds, was too expensive to maintain amid the global economic turmoil and has led to excessive buildup of public debt.

Hungary earlier dismantled a similar system while Slovakia and other countries scaled back contributions feeding the private element of their pension systems.

The decision to strip the Polish pension funds of more than a half of their assets has been criticized by many economists. Many of the fund companies are owned by international financial institutions like ING Bank NV, Aviva, Allianz or UniCredit Spa.

Although President Bronislaw Komorowski signed the controversial legislation, he pledged to ask a top court to review its compliance with the constitution. Concerns over the law's legality didn't, however, stop the bond redemption.

It's the same thing as we see in all the Western countries that are run by international banking. A faux prosperity enabled by debt, short term and one-time financial gimmicks, enslavement of the sheeple through debt, taxes, government control, becoming part of the US/UK sphere of stooge nations, where the intelligence service becomes a subsidiary of US intelligence, etc.

From The Washington Post, arguably the PR arm of the CIA:

The hidden history of the CIA’s prison in Poland

On a cold day in early 2003, two senior CIA officers arrived at the U.S. Embassy in Warsaw to pick up a pair of large cardboard boxes. Inside were bundles of cash totaling $15 million that had been flown from Germany via diplomatic pouch.

The men put the boxes in a van and weaved through the Polish capital until coming to the headquarters of Polish intelligence. They were met by Col. ­Andrzej Derlatka, deputy chief of the intelligence service, and two of his associates.

The Americans and Poles then sealed an agreement that over the previous weeks had allowed the CIA the use of a secret prison — a remote villa in the Polish lake district — to interrogate al-Qaeda suspects. The Polish intelligence service received the money, and the CIA had a solid location for its newest covert operation, according to former agency officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the interrogation program, including previously unreported details about the creation of the CIA’s “black sites,” or secret prisons.

[GOPJ]

The Americans and Poles then sealed an agreement that over the previous weeks had allowed the CIA the use of a secret prison — a remote villa in the Polish lake district — to interrogate al-Qaeda suspects. The Polish intelligence service received the money, and the CIA had a solid location for its newest covert operation, according to former agency officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the interrogation program, including previously unreported details about the creation of the CIA’s “black sites,” or secret prisons.

Does this mean secret prison interrogations don't fall under American laws?

[elhombrelibre]

If Poland helps the USA, I’m happy with that. I know that for you Russians keen to resurrect the Russian empire that Poland must be an eternal problem. And please take me off your ping list.

[PieterCasparzen]

You’re not now, nor were you ever on my ping list.

I was responding to your post #73.

I’m not Russian, I’m part English, French, German and Dutch. Both sides of my family were here before the American Revolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCKLcEJ0zzg&list=PL3E40FF7281564357&index=3

[PieterCasparzen]

Does this mean secret prison interrogations don't fall under American laws?

Well, if you're a American sheeple, American laws always apply to you, no matter where you go.

If you're an American working for the financial elites, no laws apply to you.

It's not right, it's wrong. That's the mess we're in, though.

[PGalt]

Thanks for the post; ping. Very interesting thread/discussion. Thanks to all posters. History/current events BUMP!

[GladesGuru]

FIFTEEN MEGABUCKS ! !

For a remote pla

;-)ce to ‘interrogate’ Muslims? ? ?

I'd rent my place in the ‘Glades for far less.

Any verbalizations from Muslims being interrogated would cause clapping among any/all of my few neighbors, assuming the ‘verbalizations’ were heard above the sounds of their shooting.

Think of all the money that could be saved.

;-)

[PGalt]

“Insane in the Ukraine”

http://thebullelephant.com/insane-ukraine/

from a link in a thread zero hedge poster, “icanhasbailout” put up today. 7 pages of comments from posters around the world to a zero hedge article titled...

“Here Come The Boots On The Ground: US Troops Heading To Eastern Europe”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-22/here-come-boots-ground-us-troops-heading-eastern-europe?page=2

[PGalt]

Interesting post by “jumbotron” p.3 (just after the poster/link referenced above at zero hedge)

This has everything to do with Peak Cheap Energy and who has the most of what’s left AND where it’s going.

The U.S. and the West want influence if not control of the flows of energy into Europe. We cannot afford Europe’s economy to go into a depression in part due to skyrocketing energy prices. The energy flow comes through in large measure if not the majority through Ukraine.

If Europe’s economy collapses due in part to a lack of relatively cheap energy, then the banking system collapses and cascades back to America and sinks us as well.

Not that Peak Debt, Peak Ponzi and Peak Corruption combined won’t do the trick before this. But there are so many straws now that can break the camel’s back the U.S. cannot take any chances.

And we are going to sacrifice even more young flesh for the West’s Utopian dream to stay alive for at least one more year.....if not forever.

Not that it will matter. Empires always fall. And so will ours and so will the West. The only question is how many of our children will have to die before we accept the inevitable.