Ukraine Rebels Down Helicopters

Newser ^ | May 2, 2014 | Rob Quinn

[Enterprise]

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(Newser) – Ukrainian forces—declining to follow Russia's suggestion that they withdraw from their own country—are trying to retake the pro-Russia rebel stronghold of Slovyansk in fighting that has killed at least three people. The dead include at least two soldiers killed when the insurgents shot down two Ukrainian military helicopters, the BBC reports. The defense ministry says the use of surface-to-air missiles shows that they are dealing with a "well-trained and armed professional subversive group committing acts of terrorism and sabotage in order to destabilize the region."

Ukraine's interior minister says security forces are fighting to "free hostages, force the militants to lay down their arms and vacate government buildings, and to restore the normal functioning of the city"; government forces have taken control of nine checkpoints surrounding the city, reports the Wall Street Journal. Moscow—which earlier warned that any move against pro-Russia militants would have "catastrophic consequences" for Ukraine—says the offensive has "effectively destroyed the last hope for the implementation of the Geneva agreements" that were intended to defuse the crisis, the AP reports.

[Enterprise]

Tick tock.

[junta]

Ukrainian soldiers are gonna be used up big time if told to advance house to house, suck to be them. Google up Syrian tank meets RPG-29, or how one T-72 got smoked.

[meatloaf]

There’s no need to go house by house. The majority of Ukrainians even of Russian ethnic background don’t want to live under Russian rule. The Ukrainian forces have been rolling up the terrorists while most of us slept last night. The Putler apologists were busy too.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3151125/posts?q=1&;page=1

[McGruff]

MOSCOW — The Kremlin said Friday that “all hope” for an internationally negotiated settlement in Ukraine had been destroyed, hours after two Ukrainian helicopters were shot down as government forces launched an assault to dislodge pro-Russian separatists from the eastern city of Slovyansk.

A spokesman for President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, Dmitri S. Peskov, told news agencies that the “punitive operation” against the separatists’ eastern stronghold effectively had destroyed “all hope for the viability of the Geneva agreements” negotiated in the Swiss city on April 17 by the United States, Russia, Ukraine and the European Union, which were intended to defuse the crisis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/03/world/europe/ukraine.html

Sounds like Putin thinks he has a green light to intervene now.

[meatloaf]

That depends on how delusional Putin is. Just as we gave him grounds in Syria to gain support at home, he has helped ensure the next US president is not a limp-wristed panty waste.

Ukraine has been moving military units towards the border for months. There will be lots of bloodshed. The information about the Russian provocateurs has gotten quite a bit of exposure. Meanwhile lots of moves have been made to lessen European exposure to Russian economic pressure.

He’s also given the Chinese a negotiating advantage because now that they know Europe is on the path to reducing reliance on Russian gas, they can stick it to Russia by negotiating a lower price for the gas they may buy in the future.

Putin has already publicly acknowledged Russia has financial problems when he went public and said the oligarchs need to pay more taxes. The Crimea is already giving Russia digestion problems. It all comes down to how much pain Putin can handle.

[Corporate Democrat]

Sounds like Putin thinks he has a green light to intervene openly now.

How pro-Russian protesters and native self-defense forces got access to MANPADS, and how they became skilled enough with them to shoot down two helicopters, will be a mystery for the ages.

[tcrlaf]

“How pro-Russian protesters and native self-defense forces got access to MANPADS,”

Again...
Underneath Slovyansk is the largest store of Cold War-era infantry weapons in the old Soviet Union.

The area was a planned rally point for third-wave divisions if the balloon ever went up. From there, they could move on the rail network to Poland or Hungary, or south into the Balkans.

[Corporate Democrat]

Additionally, do you have a source for the largest store of Cold War-era infantry weapons in the Soviet Union being in Slovyansk?

[tcrlaf]

It’s called the Volodarsky salt mine

http://www.bing.com/search?q=Volodarsky+salt+mine&form=IE10TR&src=IE10TR&pc=MAGWJS

[McGruff]

How pro-Russian protesters and native self-defense forces got access to MANPADS, and how they became skilled enough with them to shoot down two helicopters, will be a mystery for the ages

Apparently they are readily available and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to shot one.

More than 40 civilian aircraft have been hit by MANPADS missiles since the 1970s. Since the November 2002 attempted shoot down by terrorists of a civilian airliner in Mombasa, Kenya, the United States has stepped up its efforts to keep MANPADS from falling into the wrong hands, launching an initiative to prevent the illicit acquisition and use of MANPADS by terrorists and other non-state actors.

Two insurgents in Iraq with SA-7b and SA-14 MANPADS.

http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/169139.htm

[tcrlaf]

Looks like the rebels have had control of Volodarsky since March. This easily explains how they have gotten ahold of Iglas and RPG-18’s/22’s.

They also got at least one AA APC, and one AA truck when they took the weapons from the Ukrainian Airborne Unit a couple of weeks ago.

Kiev should have already known that, and any attack should have planned for it. Obviously they didn’t.

[McGruff]

Well, well, well. Free for all: Up to 20,000 anti-aircraft missiles stolen in Libya.

[McGruff]

Shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles flow abroad from Libya: U.N.