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Liberals and libertarians have a false concept of human nature and thus the philosophical principles that have been handed down over thousands of years regarding marriage.
1 posted on 05/19/2014 6:49:09 AM PDT by Nelson Hultberg
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To: Nelson Hultberg
While agreeing with virtually all of your postulates, I think you are trying too hard to reason with the folly in the age where every wish list gets rationalized; where the socio/political game is distorted by those whose thought processes start in the clouds, and are then developed through the use of words in an undisciplined, but focused pursuit, premised on the notion that those cloud-borne wishes are "self-evident."

We certainly need to understand the experience derived premises of the traditional thinking that we embrace, as Conservatives and as rational beings with a recognition of the importance of intellectual integrity. But, in my own experience. to be really effective, we need to recognize also, as a core principle, that the generic adversary is largely driven by compulsion, greed, or some other base emotion. This does not mean that we should not address the realities of nature & human existence; but the major effort must be to reach those who have been misled, which necessitates learning to discern who has been misled as opposed to whom is driven by neurotic impulses, or evil intent, or other purely base motivations.

William Flax

2 posted on 05/19/2014 7:12:31 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: Nelson Hultberg

For someone who purports to be a libertarian, he begins with a surprisingly statist premise: “the defining of marriage cannot be left up to individual whim. It must be defined by the predominant institution of authority in society, which in our day is the state...”

He thus misses the libertarian argument against “same sex marriage”, to wit, that it represents an arrogation of power to the state — the state has never heretofore defined marriage, only regulated it — nor for that matter did the Church, either East or West, only regulated and blessed it — the definition, like the institution, was (and is for those of us who do not recognize the state’s purported authority to redefine the nature of non-state institutions) something that existed from time immemorial, prior to any state or any religion.

Admittedly he may miss this because he has a libertarian sensibility which sees only the individual and the state (very much like a leftist sensibility, but with the opposite valuation placed upon the roles of the two) and ignores the institutions of the non-state civil society which we conservatives value very much (marriages, families, churches, and various other associations of individuals for many purposes that are in some way greater than the sum of their parts).


4 posted on 05/19/2014 7:17:13 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: Nelson Hultberg

Marriage is the familial, societal, governmental, and economic building block of our civilization, our country, and our communities. It is a God-ordained, God-given institution, the first and most important one. It is fundamental to the laws of nature and of nature’s God, and absolutely necessary to the fulfillment of the ultimate stated purpose of the U.S. Constitution, which is “to secure the Blessings of Liberty to our Posterity.” It must be fiercely defended on every front from any and all who would pervert it or subvert it, or America cannot possibly survive. The attack on the natural family represents an existential threat.


5 posted on 05/19/2014 7:17:41 AM PDT by EternalVigilance
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