Posted on 06/02/2014 5:09:45 AM PDT by thackney
The market is betting big bet that Tesla Motors’ (NASDAQ: TSLA) battery technology is the fuel of the future for motor cars. And to its credit, Tesla’s Model S has proven that a battery-electric car can be practical and desirable.
But everyone does not see a battery-operated automotive future. May see it as a fad.
The biggest automotive manufacturers have turned away from EVs (electric vehicles), and Japanese giant car maker is one of them, and TM knows a lot about battery powered electric cars
Toyota’s Prius is the world’s best-selling hybrid. Toyota has built over 6-M hybrids to date, and the Japanese automaker is a big investor in Tesla.
Toyota has spent 20 yrs trying to create a viable mass-market battery-electric vehicle. But, now the company is hinting that it has given up on the goal.
Toyota North America chief Jim Lentz recently told Automotive News that the company does not see battery-electric vehicles as a viable mass-market opportunity.
Mr. Lentz said the technology is only viable in “a select way, in short-range vehicles that take you that extra mile, from the office to the train, or home to the train, as well as being used on large campuses.”
For a primary vehicle intended for longer-range travel, Toyota believes there are better alternatives, like hybrids, and fuel cells, the technology the company is focused on now.
Fuel cells are devices that take energy from a fuel, usually Hydrogen (H) gas, and chemically convert it to electricity. Hydrogen-powered fuel-cell vehicles are electric cars that run on gas, Hydrogen gas.
Car makers have worked on this technology for decades, and now it is coming to market
Hyundai Motors (PINK:: HYMTF) already offers a cell version of its Tucson SUV at a few dealers in Southern California, Toyota and other companies say they will bring fuel-cell cars to market in a bigger way over the next couple years.
Toyota has been showing a vehicle called the “FCV Concept” that is widely believed to be a preview of the fuel-cell car the automaker plans to begin building next year, that is a real and visible shift in direction.
In Y 2010, Toyota took a $50-M stake in Tesla Motors, the 2 companies agreed to a deal where in Tesla would provide the drivetrains for a battery-electric version of Toyota’s RAV4 SUV.
But after buying Tesla components for about 2,600 electric RAV4s, Toyota recently halted that deal, sales were slow.
Toyota has likely learned a lot from working with Tesla, but the decision to end the deal was simple, Toyota is investing money in fuel cells.
Toyota believes that the fuel cell car is than the battery-electric cars.
That is very important because of Toyota’s Green-car credibility, and status in the global auto industry.
The Big Q: will Toyota’s new fuel-cell car will sell?
The Big A: it depend on the car’s pricing and the availability of refueling stations. There are not very many now, but more are coming if you live in California.
Toyota has arranged a $7-M credit facility to a company called FirstElement Fuel that is building hydrogen “gas stations” in California. The company expects to have a basic network of stations in place by Fall of Y 2015, with 50 in operation by the end of Y 2016.
The next Big Q: will Toyota’s reputation for quality will help sales and speed the adoption of the technology, after all the only emissions are water vapor (H2O).
They will likely be electric, just not powered by archaic battery cells like they are using now. When some of the more advanced cell tech becomes affordable, we’ll see 1000+ mile range and performance that will outperform internal combustion engines.
What in the world kind of writing is this? There are words missing in some places and extra words in other places.
With a mind uncluttered by the facts or any relevant experience, I would predict that cars able to run on a variety of fuels might be part of the future design. Gas/diesel/propane/hydrogen competition might help keep costs down.
Very sloppy. Guess the missing word in this sentence:
“Toyota believes that the fuel cell car is _____ than the battery-electric cars. “
“The next Big Q: will Toyota’s reputation for quality will help sales and speed the adoption of the technology, after all the only emissions are water vapor (H2O).”
The next big answer: Common sense alone will drive the sales. I have for the longest time wondered why this has not been done lonnnnggggg ago. As far back as the Apollo program and maybe even to Gemini, all of our spacecraft have used it. Other than push back from the oil industry, there should have been no reason not to go down this path. Other than the price and availability of gasoline and diesel were enough to offset the economic need.
Bonus point awarded to you for actual reading of the article.
more likely to be subsidized
As long as cost are not a concern, and your number one priority is lbs of thrust versus mass of fuel, it is a good choice.
But if your vehicle is not subsidized by tax payers, and storage volume and cryogenics are a concern, then there are better choices.
Purely electric cars are a waste of time because they have on board power generation capability of their own and batteries are too heavy, bulky and unsafe.
Hybrids are the obvious way to go - use the most efficient turbo diesel or fuel cell you can for power generation, store as much power in smaller, lighter weight battery pack (including electric utility power if practical, regenerate braking and slowing to recover otherwise lost energy into the battery make the thing as light as possible with advanced materials and you have defined the advanced tech car of the future
Battery operated cars are inefficient, expensive, lack range, cannot be easily charged away from home and use more fossil fuel than gasoline cars.
And what is the life expectancy of the battery? 5 years?
And how much does the battery cost? $20K.
Liberal feel good crap.
Hydrogen is not a fuel. It is an energy storage medium. It takes energy to release hydrogen, e.g., hydrolysis or the Fischer-Tropsch process. Most hydrogen on Earth is locked up in hydrocarbons or water. This is not a viable motor fuel.
The author lost me when he referred to batteries as “fuel”.
Electrochemical reactions are not the most efficient way in the world to store energy. But greenies are in love with batteries, because they don't see the nuclear or, worse for them, coal-fired electrical generating plants that power their idiot "charging station" at the mall.
Agreed. It is competition with a battery, not an actual fuel. It takes the consumption of another fuel to create it, and that is a significant loss of efficiency. Today, the cheapest form of H2 is from steam reforming natural gas.
IF you HAVE to have a hybrid:
http://cars.mclaren.com/home/models_link/McLAREN%20P1%e2%84%a2.html
Only 375 made, perhaps a few are still available...$1,150,000.
0-186 in 16 seconds. And, in most states, you can use the carpool lane!
You think that storage volume is a concern for hydrogen fuel cells? I saw nothing in the article where Toyota is asking for any Federal grants. It clearly states they are heading away from primary battery storage for the far more efficient, and from all accounts, reliability of fuel cells to perform in all environments and not just in lab style scenarios.
My point about the space uses was just to point out this is nothing new at all. With the current technology available, they are way ahead of the development curve and I am sure they are already working on any of the cryogenic, or any other issues in their R&D departments, to provide this means as a safe alternative.
Yep. Just yesterday I saw (read) another idiot claim that so-and-so's electric car ... blah blah blah ... "all without producing any emissions!"
Yeah, um, where do you think most of that electricity comes from that charges your wonderful little experiment in marketing? I just looked it up, electrical production in the US is 87% by fossil fuels and nuclear (which is finite and has waste products, so I'm not counting it as renewable)
If people want an electric car, by all means they should get one. Tesla produces a beautiful automobile, fast, comfortable and luxurious. I wish them well. They’re one of the few American marques that have export appeal.
Whether or not purely electric vehicles make economic sense in the broader scheme of things will be determined by the market, tempered by regulatory and governmental tinkering. This has always been the case.
Electric cars are not new, they were there at the dawn of automotive travel. As battery tech improves and broader adoption drives economies of scale, we’ll see just how practical they are. Fuel cells are just another form of battery to my understanding.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.