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Forget universal preschool. We need a 13th grade.
The Washington Post's Post Everything ^ | June 10, 2014 | Dr. Andre Perry, dean of urban education, Davenport University

Posted on 06/12/2014 1:15:19 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

In education circles, universal preschool is hot. But it’s only half the answer. If we really want to raise a generation of employable kids, we need universal 13th and 14th grades too.

As taxpayers, we’ve decided to subsidize the education of every American child between the ages of 5 and 18. But current education funding structures reflect a bygone industrial age, when a high school diploma met or in some cases exceeded the needs of the local and national economies. Now, neither preschool nor college is a luxury, and families shouldn’t have to pay for the schooling that keeps society running.

Creating grades 13 and 14 would reduce student debt significantly, while also providing kids without college degrees a viable path to work. And it would offer students who need remedial courses a chance to catch up. Right now, those kids often pay out-of-pocket for classes that don’t count toward their degree.

Such a program wouldn’t be cheap. But the government already pays for 13th and 14th grade, in the form of hodgepodge student loans.

Instead, all students should receive a voucher they can use for middle colleges, community colleges, or four-year degree programs. State and federal governments should also begin to negotiate the amount of grants and loans given to colleges and universities to prevent tuition inflation....

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: college; education; highereducation; teens; vocations

1 posted on 06/12/2014 1:15:19 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
In education circles, universal preschool is hot. …
Is that what they’re calling communist circles these days?
2 posted on 06/12/2014 1:16:45 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Considering these kids can’t even pass the 3rd grade in our educational system (but they get passed on anyway, I’ve seen teenagers who still can’t read), I don’t think 13th or 14th grade is going to fix it. What we probably need is to dismantle the educational system entirely and let the states handle it on their own.

I also don’t think that every kid has the same aptitude. No more one size fits all. I would consider opening up schools that actually include things like building stuff, how to construct a house, carpentry, working with metal, wiring up a house, etc. Produce students who can do working-man’s jobs, along with regular classes.


3 posted on 06/12/2014 1:23:54 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This plan won’t work. I’ve seen many people with college degrees that can’t craft a simple sentence with correctly spelled words.


4 posted on 06/12/2014 1:36:04 AM PDT by IDontLikeToPayTaxes
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

There are community colleges from one end of America to the other Anyone wishing to attend grades 13 and 14 may do so now. We don’t need more overlapping waste in government , and we don’t need higher taxes to pay for it. ( perhaps the newsletter would do better to look at the low quality of so many of today’s grades 1-12)


5 posted on 06/12/2014 1:37:05 AM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..)w)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

We had those kind of high schools and the Left got rid of most of them. They want every child to go on and get at least a 4 year degree for some reason.


6 posted on 06/12/2014 1:39:49 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2Million USD for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

And look how many people are getting hired with their 4 year degrees in women’s studies and Mexican American literature, which they probably received with a C average too.


7 posted on 06/12/2014 1:55:07 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: IDontLikeToPayTaxes

I have seen this also, and these people are still getting degrees. Then they wonder why they can’t get hired. All these college degrees, like inflated money, become more worthless with each graduate.


8 posted on 06/12/2014 1:57:03 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Indian kids are somehow able to graduate high school at 17 or so, and be fully capable of moving on to college.

If the current US system can’t get kids ready by age 18, how is doing more of the same going to make a difference? And, why even consider more grades rather than reforming the grades already in place?

Of course, kids in India are started on reading, math, and basic “social studies” i.e. history and basic knowledge of their culture, in preschool, and by Kindergarten are expected to not only be proficient in Hindi, but reasonably capable of English as well. By 1st grade, they’re doing all four basic math operations, and by 6th they’re doing algebra.

Meanwhile, for kids in the US, preschool is nothing more than daycare, even at the organized “schools”, and kindergarten is only the barest rudiments of exposure to things like the existence of numbers and letters. My 3yo daughter can already recognize the entire alphabet, write the letters in upper and lower case, is reading words, is starting to show signs of understanding how the “tens” place works in numbers, and can do basic addition and subtraction. When she starts school, she’ll probably be capable of skipping right to 1st grade at age 5, and I’ll have to get her enrolled in some outside institution so she gets actual instruction in academics like math and language.


9 posted on 06/12/2014 2:01:35 AM PDT by Little Pig
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What a load of crap!

In the ‘40s-’50s, pre-schoolers went to privately operated day care that parents paid for, if both parents were working, until they were 6-7 years old and entered the 1st grade.

In 8th grade, I had courses in electric, metal and wood shops. We learned the basics and used the equipment and materials to make things.

Remedial courses in college didn’t exist. If we didn’t make passing grades during the regular terms, we had to go to Summer school. ...I went after the 9th, 10th and 11th grades and made A and B grades because the material was so concentrated in a short time frame, rather than being strung out over so many weeks that students lost interest and focus.

These morons in academia that are pushing for higher level education have no concept of what the job market is needing in workers. They only care about furthering their cushy liberal jobs.

Full disclosure... Went on active duty in Navy about 4 months after HS graduation. After Navy, while married and with a child, went to night school at Community College. Earned an AAS and transferred to a State Univ., where I earned a BBA. A few years later, I went to night school at a private Univ. and earned a 48hr. MBA. ......Just because a student is bored in grades 8-12 because of lousy teachers doesn’t mean they are unable to excell.

Rant over.


10 posted on 06/12/2014 2:26:01 AM PDT by octex
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Sure, when the socialist system turns out crap, they always demand that the answer be more socialism.

Right now, the state miserably fails at delivering a basic education in every year of school from pre-K to 12 (14 years), yet this idiot is certain that the answer is to add more failure onto the pile.


11 posted on 06/12/2014 2:32:34 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: SampleMan

Sure, when the socialist system turns out crap, they always demand that the answer be more socialism.

Right now, the state miserably fails at delivering a basic education in every year of school from pre-K to 12 (14 years), yet this idiot is certain that the answer is to add more failure onto the pile.


The problem we currently face is not inadequacy of the frame work of the existing system, it is the deterioration and collapse of our existing system.

This deterioration is largely due to the erosion of standards and rise of socialistic teaching and attendant dumbing down of the PC curriculum currently taught in our schools.


12 posted on 06/12/2014 2:42:02 AM PDT by rdcbn
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Grades 13 and 14 will be where the kids actually learn to read, write, cipher, and do something useful.


13 posted on 06/12/2014 2:48:08 AM PDT by Fresh Wind (The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.)
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To: Fresh Wind

Don’t we already have that? It’s called county jail. LOL


14 posted on 06/12/2014 2:48:58 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2Million USD for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Why not have the taxpayers pay for education through a doctorate for every American — whether they’re capable of it or not? A person who reaches the age of 25 and still needs five more years of formal education to learn even basic life skills is considered a huge success story for the education industry.


15 posted on 06/12/2014 3:08:00 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
families shouldn’t have to pay for the schooling that keeps society running.

Really? Dr. Perry, how did you manage to get your PhD (or is it EdD?) without knowing the basic truth that shifting the source of payment for a service to tax moneys does not make it free? Families *do* pay for school, and they aren't getting their money's worth.

16 posted on 06/12/2014 3:12:11 AM PDT by exDemMom (Current visual of the hole the US continues to dig itself into: http://www.usdebtclock.org/)
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To: SampleMan
I would add that a proposed measure like this has nothing to do with actually educating young adults in the "13th and 14th" grades. This is nothing more than a way to subsidize these people just to keep them out of the work force for another two years.

I have an MS in engineering and work in a senior management position in engineering. Strange as it may sound, I've always said that I could have worked my first five years in this profession right out of high school.

17 posted on 06/12/2014 3:13:02 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Public school should not be daycare.
Public school should not be a means of wealth redistribution.
Public school should not be a way to make unemployment numbers look good.
Public school should be “achieve as you go”, not matriculated.
Public school should end when the kids turn 11.


18 posted on 06/12/2014 3:18:39 AM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

We need to apprentice three-fours of these “students” to a coffin maker at age 12, for everyone’s good.


19 posted on 06/12/2014 3:20:48 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (This is known as "bad luck". - Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

A 13th and 14th grade would just be throwing more tax money away. Many of the men who ran ashore on D-Day were 19 and 20-years-old. If you’re so lazy that you can’t read or write after 12 years of school then two more years won’t help.


20 posted on 06/12/2014 3:28:00 AM PDT by servo1969
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Creating grades 13 and 14 would reduce student debt significantly, while also providing kids without college degrees a viable path to work. And it would offer students who need remedial courses a chance to catch up.

This is the equivalent to going to a bad restaurant and deciding, "You know what this place needs? Bigger portions!"

21 posted on 06/12/2014 3:29:32 AM PDT by Flick Lives ("I can't believe it's not Fascism!")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

We actually need fewer college graduates with four year liberal arts degrees from third tier colleges and universities and more skilled tradespeople with technical training.

I was recently talking to the owner of a local heating and cooling business who employs over 50 people. He said finding knowledgable and skilled young people to work as technicians and installers in his business is impossible at decent middle class wages.

Local community colleges have shifted their focus from providing solid technical and trades instruction to providing liberal arts education for students who stay at home for a two year associates degree and then transfer to a lower tier state university. If they get their four year degree in diversity studies or psychology they can’t find a job. Meanwhile, had they spent two years receiving training in a skill (plumbing, HVAC, electrical), and two years in an apprenticeship, they would be earning over $20 per hour and have a skill they could eventually leverage into their own independent business.

Progressives continually call for us to emulate European nations. They ignore the excellent trades and technical training programs in Europe for non college graduates. Imagine if instead of forgiving loans for $60,000 per year tuition at 4 year colleges we spent the money upgrading our 2 year schools and training highly skilled mechanics, electricians, cabinet makers, HVAC repair people, and plumbers for far less money. We’d have more people working and fewer unemployed youth at a much lower cost.


22 posted on 06/12/2014 3:43:19 AM PDT by Soul of the South (Yesterday is gone. Today will be what we make of it.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
A 13th grade, run by the same idiots currently pretending to be teachers, would be worthless.

What might be useful would be for the smarter kids to be put in a program at their local community college starting in 11th grade, where they would attend rigorous college-level courses for 2-3 years, to get a taste of what it's like.

But that would be quickly sabotaged, and then cancelled as being "racist".

What's really needed is to raise teacher standards, so that being an education major is no longer where the people with the lowest SAT scores go. At the LEAST, a teacher should score in the 70th percentile in the SAT subject tests for English, history, math, and one science before being accepted into an education major program. I would prefer 80th percentile.

23 posted on 06/12/2014 3:43:26 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hell, we have 13th and 14th grades already. They are called Community Colleges, and they are the REMEDIAL CLASSES. Go look at a course schedule these days and see the HUGE NUMBER OF SECTIONS they have available...half their students are in them now. None should be.

But DO NOT CHANGE IT. The colleges are MUCH BETTER than any high school is capable of - they have NO TENURE (at least for the vast majority of instructors), they have NO UNIONS, and they have virtually NO WASHINGTON CONTROL. They regulate themselves and do what’s needed to ACTUALLY TEACH students.


24 posted on 06/12/2014 3:52:34 AM PDT by BobL
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

freshman year of college IS 13th grade, with beer and....


25 posted on 06/12/2014 4:00:51 AM PDT by silverleaf (Age takes a toll: Please have exact change)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"...families shouldn’t have to pay for the schooling that keeps society running."

At this point, I'm done with the article. Since it's TAX money that would fund this monstrosity, it WILL be families that pay for it, regardless.

Do liberals really believe that Washington is some kind of "magic money box", where money just appears out of thin air?

26 posted on 06/12/2014 4:13:47 AM PDT by cincinnati65
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To: Alberta's Child
I have an MS in engineering and work in a senior management position in engineering. Strange as it may sound, I've always said that I could have worked my first five years in this profession right out of high school.

Yep, the greatest thing we could do for education in this country is to replace diplomas with certifications. If I can walk in and pass the Bar exam, I should be able to practice law, regardless of whether I went to law school. Ditto for an engineering PE.

Employers could then weigh how much value they wanted to attach to a diploma and individuals could weigh how much value the education they were receiving really was to achieving the required credentials, e.g. perhaps reading and studying 6hrs a night on my own (or via the Internet) while working, is a better option than spending $40k a year.

The natural result would be an active apprentice system.

27 posted on 06/12/2014 4:22:37 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

How about this: Eight grades where they don’t get advanced unless they really do know what they are supposed to, two years of vocational training, and then put them to work.


28 posted on 06/12/2014 4:56:26 AM PDT by twhitak
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To: Flick Lives

Exactly. Garbage argument, garbage article, but to be expect from the Washington Compost.


29 posted on 06/12/2014 5:15:20 AM PDT by darkangel82
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No, we just need schools to for-crying-out-loud educate the kids to some sort of decent standard.

It’s NOT rocket science.


30 posted on 06/12/2014 5:17:20 AM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: Jack Hammer

13th grade? It’s called the military.


31 posted on 06/12/2014 5:19:16 AM PDT by DIRTYSECRET (urope. Why do they put up with this.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No, we don’t need MORE grades, we need to stop foisting nonessential crap off as ‘education’.


32 posted on 06/12/2014 5:24:58 AM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a Person as created by the Laws of Nature, not a person as created by the laws of Man)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

spare the rod, spoil the child

Good old fashioned ass whoopings would solve most education problems.

By abandoning discipline the kids take the lazy way out and simply refuse to learn.

Obama is currently sparing the international rod and the same thing is already happening to US interests


33 posted on 06/12/2014 5:25:54 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

We need a functioning school system that focuses on actual education.

We do not need to expand the current indoctrination system to consume more of a young person’s time (and taxpayer dollars).


34 posted on 06/12/2014 5:36:55 AM PDT by MortMan ("Homeland" may be a documentary.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“They want every child to go on and get at least a 4 year degree for some reason.”

Because an utterly worthless BA/BS/MA/MS/PhD in Women’s Gender, Racial Disparities or Basket Weaving is just so much better. Heh.


35 posted on 06/12/2014 5:47:32 AM PDT by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

More grades, more teachers, more union members.

Grow the monster that is the Dept of Education.


36 posted on 06/12/2014 9:38:06 AM PDT by hattend (Firearms and ammunition...the only growing industries under the Obama regime.)
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To: Little Pig
Speaking of Indians, Cherokee children in Indian Territory in the 19th century studied Greek and Latin in grade school.

Yes, the other kind of Indians.

Instead of adding grade 13, why not make sure students learn what they need to know in the first 12 grades?

37 posted on 06/12/2014 10:46:39 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Soul of the South

“Progressives continually call for us to emulate European nations. They ignore the excellent trades and technical training programs in Europe for non college graduates”

And those going to college have to qualify for the major they want. My cousin in Italy wanted to major in math, but couldn’t pass the exams. She ended up studying psychology.


38 posted on 06/13/2014 1:14:53 PM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: PapaBear3625

“What’s really needed is to raise teacher standards, so that being an education major is no longer where the people with the lowest SAT scores go. At the LEAST, a teacher should score in the 70th percentile in the SAT subject tests for English, history, math, and one science before being accepted into an education major program. I would prefer 80th percentile.”

It is actually worse than education majors having one of the lowest SAT scores. When I was taking the math, chemistry, and physics tests to be credentialed, I ran into numerous PE and other such teachers taking one of those tests for the 4th or 5th time. After passing, they get to teach those subjects. The tests were not above a 12th grade level. Sad. And here in CA, they offer dummy math degrees only good for being a teacher. Soon to be teachers can’t even pass a real math curriculum.

A friend of mine with a masters in a real math degree got laid off from teaching - because she didn’t coach anything.

Their priorities are so backwards!


39 posted on 06/13/2014 4:18:39 PM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: yorkiemom
The lowest qualified teachers make the best union supporters, precisely because they know how quickly they would starve if they had to compete on their own merits.

This creates an incentive for the unions to get rid of the best qualified teachers, ensure that real learning does not take place, and use that as an excuse to demand more funding.

40 posted on 06/14/2014 4:15:32 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PapaBear3625

And it’s working! I got a credential through a program that took people from math and science jobs and gave us a fast track to a credential. Of the 3 engineers in the program, all of us quit teaching in the first year. We were disgusted at how education had deteriorated.

Anyone capable of doing something else eventually quits what passes for teaching these days.


41 posted on 06/14/2014 12:58:33 PM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: yorkiemom

Did you try a private school? I recall something about private schools being more interested in subject matter expertise than ed-school credentials, but my info may be way out of date.


42 posted on 06/14/2014 3:29:03 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PapaBear3625

I did. The one I chose wasn’t the best, although it was the most expensive in town. Caveat Emptor when it comes to private schools!

I found, at this one at least, that they were so money hungry that they just wanted grades passed out so the parents wouldn’t complain. And would donate as well as pay tuition.

They also wanted to be able to take kids into their school from the public sector - which meant they couldn’t be too far ahead of the public schools. I think most private schools fit this scenario. Sadly, this school was way behind the public schools! With parents paying about $13,000 a year in tuition!


43 posted on 06/14/2014 5:35:12 PM PDT by yorkiemom
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