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Taken as a group there’s no proof those security measures have accomplished anything other than inconvenience a lot of people and shred the Bill of Rights. What stops terrorists is hard work by the cops, and sometimes luck. Treating the basic citizen as a criminal solves nothing.

Ipso facto proof. We had hijackings occur, we put in place heightened airline security and no fly lists, and we haven't had hijackings since.

If you look at the 39 foiled terrorist plots listed here a few things seem to show up in common:

Islam remains the common ideology of most terrorists active today
Islamic Spiritual leaders are also sometimes Jihad leaders.
nearly all the terrorists are immigrants from Islamic countires.
Almost all have connections with other terrorists
Many travel overseas to facilitate terrorism

Meeting all these criteria seems to permit some extra attention gets paid to people.

I agree with the poster below that if you are going to have rights revoked the Gov. should be requried to tell you, tell you why, and let you appeal

But I don't agree that the same standards used in criminal trails can or should be used in dealing with terrorists, especially foreign born terrorists. It's to our eternal discredit that we have allowed all these people in to start with, and that we appear unable to kick them out now.

But to also handicap ourselves and say that we can't take any preventative steps around a imam with known terrorist associates, running a mosque that has radicalized it's members, who have left to go on jihad.... WELL the Constitution isn't a suicide pact.

I think the judge has made a reasonable decision. Citizen rights don't disappear because of war, but they can be limited. Rights of appeal are the ones least likely to be given up, as they are the last resort.

As the Wikipedia article on Kennedy_v._Mendoza-Martinez, a war time case, explains the court's decision

In other words, the court acknowledged the expanded powers of Congress during wartime, but also ruled that those wartime powers do not permit Congress to circumvent the measures of due process.[4]

Ipso facto proof. We had hijackings occur, we put in place heightened airline security and no fly lists, and we haven't had hijackings since.

That's a ridiculous argument. The reason we haven't had hijackings since 9/11/01 is that the rules of the game changed on that day. On 9/10/01, it was assumed that a hijacker on board meant a detour to Havana or some other communist hell hole, then a continuation of your flight. After 9/11/01, we knew that a hijacker means the plane has been converted into a weapon of mass destruction. The ad-hoc militia that formed on the plane over Pennsylvania showed how Americans will react to future hijackers.

Full-auto weapons will not allow muslim scum to hijack a plane today. The only thing that was really necessary in the wake of 9/11 was that the pilot cabin be reinforced, and that the entire flight crew be armed. If we actually lived in a free country, the passengers would be armed as well.

The police state only makes things better for the police, not those who suffer under its rule.

Ipso facto isn’t proof, we went a long time before 9-11 without any hijackings, decades. So there’s no proof that whatever prevented the hijackings before then isn’t exactly what’s preventing them now. To prove these measures work you need ACTUAL hijackers ACTUALLY stopped by THESE RULES. Something that nobody is willing to stand up and say actually happened.

Those aren’t criteria that get you on the no fly list. Those criteria might get you on the terrorist watch list, but the no fly list seems to be basically random. Kennedy had issues because “T Kennedy” wound up on the list, “t kennedy who?” you might ask, just “T Kennedy” could be anybody, including apparently Edward Kennedy. That’s part of the problem with the list, it’s just names, not even full names, nobody knows why those names, nothing to distinguish them from other people with similar names, it’s seemingly random.

You continue to function under the lie from the government that people on the no fly list are terrorists. They ARE NOT, even if the original name put on the list was a terrorist they stop EVERYBODY with a similar name, look at this list of “controversial” people on the no fly list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List#False_positives_and_other_controversial_cases
these aren’t terrorists. These are senators, congressmen, kids, veterans, actors, people who visited the “wrong” country.

This isn’t a war though. Not anymore if it ever really was. Where’s the front? Who’s the enemy? What are the victory conditions? Who do we eventually negotiate the peace with? In a war you can answer those questions quickly and succinctly. The war on terror is much like the war on drugs, it’s a made up war that can never be won and exists solely to shred the Bill of Rights. Don’t let fear turn you into a moron, stop excuse mongering the destruction of your rights. The government is lying to you about these lists, how they’re made, how they work, and if they accomplish anything. The lists are junk, the don’t stop anything except freedom.