The IRS Crackdown on Offshore Tax Cheats Comes with a Price

Fiscal Times ^ | 07/04/2014 | John Grgurich

[SeekAndFind]

If you're an American, July 4 likely holds some significance for you, even if that's only getting the day off from work, having a beer, and watching some fireworks. But if you're an American living overseas, July 1 may come to hold an even greater significance

[SES1066]

Interesting conversation we are having this Independence Day morning, isn't it?

Anyway and to the point of your query; It depends on what her motivations are, doesn't it?

I know her and you do not so you can only guess and I know (in this specific case!) She was proud and happy living here in the US, she lost her husband and went to visit her old family in England, she fell and broke her hip and has become an invalid at an advanced age. Does that sound like a deliberate plan to you?

She would be very happy to retain her US Citizenship but through a new and complex governmental reporting requirement, she now has to give up a treasured status. She is what some would call 'collateral damage' in that she is an innocent bystander that the IRS & Congress steamroller runs over to get to the 'Swiss bank accounts' of the wealthy.

[kiryandil]

It’s really stealth capital controls, IMHO, even if you dress it up pretty and call it fraud prevention.

If we were serious about fraud prevention, we'd eliminate the IRS, the wellspring of fraudulent activity in the United States.

I mean, their IT department is a fraud. The Director, john Koskinen, is a fraud.

Their support people are frauds. They can't even read or interpret their own documentation, and their tax software is junk.

[RBroadfoot]

The big problem is precisely that Americans who want to open a simple, personal checking account in local currency cannot do so.

IRS has made doing so prohibitively expensive for any reputable foreign bank with FATCA. Such banks simply cannot afford to do business with Americans unless the balances are in seven figures.

[SES1066]

This is where the applicability of these regulations gets a little hazy for me ...

One, dual citizenship works to 'disguise' you to the local bank but you would end up fully liable should the IRS discover this and you failed to report such an account. The term tax cheat can have strong legal implications.

Two, yes, some of these taxpayer reporting requirements are not new but the annual forms and regulations are as well as the required foreign institution reporting. For the foreign institutions, these reporting requirements are a real intrusion and burden that they can avoid by not taking the depositors.

From a pertinent IRS Document;
Under FATCA, to avoid being withheld upon, foreign financial institutions (FFIs) may register with the IRS and agree to report to the IRS certain information about their U.S. accounts, including accounts of certain foreign entities with substantial U.S. owners
FFIs that enter into an agreement with the IRS to report on their account holders may be required to withhold 30% on certain payments to foreign payees if such payees do not comply with FATCA,/i>

[SeekAndFind]

RE: I should have been more clear. It’s worth noting that in every case I’ve come across, the taxpayer didn’t owe a penny to the IRS because the income tax rates in the other country were always higher.

Try working in these countries (or territories):

Singapore, Hongkong, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.

A lot of American expats do.

[RBroadfoot]

I’ve spent about ten years abroad as an expatriate and have some experience in this. It used to be, back before globalization, that reputable foreign banks were responsible to their domestic regulatory authorities. It was easy to open an account because the domestic regulatory authorities were mainly interested in collecting domestic taxes.

With FATCA and globalization, the IRS has made virtually all reputable foreign banks subject to US law. If a foreign bank does not fully comply with the US FATCA with respect to its US customers, it is subject to a 30% withholding tax on all overseas payments. The regulatory burden makes doing business with US citizens prohibitively expensive.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-30/offshore-tax-crackdown-opens-with-30-penalties-for-banks.html

[kiryandil]

She had reasonable retirement income and Social Security but just the effort to comply with these regulations is punishing her.

The people at the IRS are lying, incompetent criminals who can't interpret their own documentation, nor do they have computer software that actually works.

These regulations are just a big fat middle finger to the peasants who don't have "people" to take care of this stuff for them.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. -- The Founding Fathers

[razorback-bert]

Just for the h*ll of it, once on a trip to the Cayman Islands, I looked into opening an account at one of the banks. They really didn’t want my money, to much hassle for anything less than 7 figures.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Wrong thread!

[Alberta's Child]

She should consider herself fortunate that she has that kind of flexibility, eh? Though I don't have much sympathy for people who become U.S. citizens without renouncing the citizenship of their country of origin (I'm wondering how your client managed this back in the 1970s).

On the flip side ... if she ever wants to come back and live in the U.S., she'd be well served to migrate here through Mexico and enter the U.S. on a freight train with no papers, no identification, etc. She'll enjoy much more freedom here in the U.S. that way.

No sarcasm here, either.

[Alberta's Child]

LOL. I wondered if that was the case.

[SES1066]

Though I don't have much sympathy for people who become U.S. citizens without renouncing the citizenship of their country of origin (I'm wondering how your client managed this back in the 1970s).

I never said that she was dual citizenship, you assumed that. She DID give up her UK citizenship and is a visa visitor in England. Now she has to jump through whatever hoops she must if she decides to follow my advice to give up her singular US Citizenship.

[njslim]

Got a letter from IRS last week with a 5 page double sided
questionaire asking me to describe my job for a former
employer

Called a Section 7206 Summons

Checked with my accountant and called up my former boss

Is a fishing exposition to see if 1099 I worked on is
legitamate or owe back payroll taxes

Sent it back in - blank...........

[SeekAndFind]

Tell them that your previous forms were in your computer but the hard disk crashed and the disk has been recycled.

[Mr. Jeeves]

Our tax system is an economic Berlin wall, designed to punish Americans who dare to attempt an escape. How are we any better than the east bloc was?

And please note the silence of the Republican Party (save for Rand Paul) on this issue. They apparently approve of the concept that a citizen and his future earnings are state property.

[njslim]

Computer crashed in January 2013 had to buy new one

See it does work.......

[beef]

“And please note the silence of the Republican Party (save for Rand Paul) on this issue.”

This sort of demonization serves the left’s lust for power and money. Unfortunately, they are able to co opt misguided feeling of patriotism from many on the right. Including many on this forum.

[Organic Panic]

I believe we have the lucky distinction of being the only cpuntry in the worldto file taxes no matter where we are. Next time I leave the country I am landing in Tijuana, changing my name to Gomez and sneaking back in.

[Mr. Jeeves]

If they don’t want to be demonized, they had better start acting like Americans instead of K-Street puppets. FATCA wouldn’t have gone into effect without Republican indifference, if not outright support.

[PapaBear3625]

I believe that's exactly how the U.S. tax code works right now. You get taxed in the country where you earned your income, but you still have to file a U.S. tax return. You get a credit on your U.S. tax return for the taxes you paid in the foreign country, so you only pay the difference (if any) between what is owed to the IRS and what you've already paid in the other tax jurisdiction.

I don't think that's what SeekAndFind meant.

In a territorial system, there would be no "pay the difference". I would only pay US taxes for income earned in the US. If I work the year in Germany, I only pay German taxes, and zero US taxes, and while I might be required to file a US return, I would only need to list as gross income what I earned in the US (zero).