Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Overreach in Louisiana: The State Has No Place in the Church Confessional
National Review ^ | 07/15/2014 | The Editors

Posted on 07/15/2014 6:38:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

When in 2008 Father Jeff Bayhi, a priest then at Our Lady of the Assumption Catholic Church in Clinton, La., heard the troubling confession of a twelve-year-old parishioner, he likely did not imagine that his sacramental duty would land him in prison. But given a recent ruling by the Louisiana Supreme Court, Father Bayhi is in the position of choosing between prison and excommunication.

Per the Supreme Court’s ruling, Bayhi must appear before the 19th Judicial District Court in Baton Rouge, which will determine whether what he heard – a civil action by the girl’s parents contends that it involved allegations of sexual abuse by a 64-year-old parishioner — constituted a “confession” or instead some other non-confidential statement that invoked Bayhi’s duty to report abuse under Louisiana’s Children’s Code. Under the law, members of the clergy are “mandatory reporters” except when they have a duty to keep private “confidential communications” shared “in the course of the discipline or practice of that church” by “the discipline or tenets of the church” (CHC 603.17.c).

If what Bayhi heard was in fact a confession, that provision would seem to exempt him, except that under Louisiana law, priest–penitent privilege attaches to the client, not the priest. If the client chooses to make the contents of a confession public, the priest can be called to confirm or deny the testimony. However, Church teaching makes no provisions for the statutes of Louisiana: “The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason” (Code of Canon Law 983.1). Priests who make known directly or indirectly to a third party the contents of a confession are automatically excommunicated, subject to reversal by the pope alone. The inviolability of sacramental confession has been formally communicated since the Fourth Council of the Lateran in 1215, though its origins predate that.

There is an apparent conflict between the ages-old laws of the Catholic Church and Louisiana legislation passed in 1991, but it is not the role of the state’s supreme court to adjudicate between the two. The First Amendment and historical precedent clearly shield Father Bayhi from having to testify in violation of his vocation.

Insofar as the First Amendment intended any “separation between church and state,” it was to protect the church from the state, not vice versa. The notion of a judge having the ability to determine what is or is not a confession should be deeply disturbing. To make the secrecy of the confession booth subject to the judiciary would effectively destroy the sacrament of Penance, which is facilitated by the penitent’s knowledge that he can confess any action to the priest without fearing legal consequences.

Making the sacrament a vehicle of the law pressures Catholics to forgo confession in order to avoid the possibility of state punishment, in which case the state would be coercing the consciences of Catholics and restricting their constitutional right to freely exercise their religion. Additionally, requiring priests to report confessions increases the likelihood that priests would refuse to hear them for fear of making themselves subject to legal action. This would be an obvious violation of the First Amendment rights of Catholic clergy.

American law has long understood this. As early as 1813, American courts recognized a priest’s ability to refuse to testify in court about conversations in the confession booth. Five years later, a separate court made the same decision. No precedent exists in American jurisprudence for compelling a priest to testify to confidential communications, and most states have expressly privileged particular communications with clergy.

It is worth noting that there is a question of whether the priest fulfilled his clerical obligations in response to the allegations. While troubling, that is not at issue here. He may roundly deserve discipline from the Church. But failures of vocational ethics do not exclude one from the protections of the First Amendment.

The constitutional principle at stake here is fundamental to the religious liberty of millions of Americans and the clergy who serve them. Father Bayhi should be subject to the disciplinary powers of his ecclesial authorities, but he cannot be allowed to be subject to the coercive powers of the state.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: confessional; crime; louisiana

1 posted on 07/15/2014 6:38:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

The facts are hard to tweeze out of this story.

It seems that a girl told a priest in a confessional that a 64 year old man was raping her and the priest treated that as a confession?


2 posted on 07/15/2014 6:51:52 AM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Importantly, communist nations with Catholics and other Orthodox established a priority early on that all confessionals must be electronically bugged, because what was said within was of intense interest to the secret police.

Since doctor-patient confidentiality has been effectively destroyed by HIPAA, the confessional has become the most important target of the authoritarian in the US.

(I might add that government wants total control over all religious sacraments, marriage being just the most recent to be absorbed. Eventually government wants recognition as “god”, taking over the role from God.)


3 posted on 07/15/2014 6:54:16 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
What? The girl was "confessing" to getting rapped? This is crazy.

If what Bayhi heard was in fact a confession,

4 posted on 07/15/2014 7:00:32 AM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

The whole idea of the State trying to force a priest to tell what he heard in Confession is stupid.

What guilty murderer, etc. would go to Confession if the State succeeds? So, this is an attempt by the State to prevent people from going to Confession if they must admit any breach of law.

By the way, the priest must not grant forgiveness to such a confessor unless he (the confessor) admits his sin to the government.


5 posted on 07/15/2014 7:02:50 AM PDT by kitkat (STORM HEAVEN WITH PRAYERS FOR OUR COUNTRY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DManA

How is it a confession if the child didn’t do anything???


6 posted on 07/15/2014 7:03:59 AM PDT by Shimmer1 (If chocolate fudge cake could sing, it would sound like Barry White.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: DManA

“All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”
- Benito Mussolini


7 posted on 07/15/2014 7:04:20 AM PDT by NorthMountain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Shimmer1

Ok, find another reason to throw this priest in jail. He did NOTHING to protect this girl.


8 posted on 07/15/2014 7:06:53 AM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: DManA

“It seems that a girl told a priest in a confessional that a 64 year old man was raping her and the priest treated that as a confession?”

She was either seeking advice because she had no way to stop the rapist, or she might have been guilty of allowing the rape to happen. You can’t possibly know which it was.


9 posted on 07/15/2014 7:07:43 AM PDT by kitkat (STORM HEAVEN WITH PRAYERS FOR OUR COUNTRY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Very good comment.


10 posted on 07/15/2014 7:08:50 AM PDT by kitkat (STORM HEAVEN WITH PRAYERS FOR OUR COUNTRY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: kitkat

A 12 year old guilty of “allowing” a rape? Listen to yourself.


11 posted on 07/15/2014 7:08:59 AM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: DManA

“A 12 year old guilty of “allowing” a rape? Listen to yourself.”

Were you in the confessional? We have NO idea what she said. Perhaps the rapist threatened to kill her or to harm some other member of her family and she was afraid of going to the police. YOU WEREN’T in the Confessional.


12 posted on 07/15/2014 7:16:07 AM PDT by kitkat (STORM HEAVEN WITH PRAYERS FOR OUR COUNTRY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: kitkat

It is crystal clear what happened in that confessional. A twelve year old girl asked for help from an adult she trusted and she got nothing.


13 posted on 07/15/2014 7:18:26 AM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Shimmer1

Per Church rules anything divulged during the course of a confession cannot be later confirmed by the priest to anyone, even if the person who divulged it wants him to. The priest can’t even confirm to anyone he heard a particular confession from a particular person in the first place, to my understanding.

This is the first time I have seen that the law was changed in ‘91 to presumably allow one party to end confidentiality. So my question is why hasn’t this come up before now in the case of confession?

Freegards


14 posted on 07/15/2014 7:20:33 AM PDT by Ransomed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: DManA

Yes, I do not agree with this “priest” in any way.


15 posted on 07/15/2014 7:21:07 AM PDT by Shimmer1 (If chocolate fudge cake could sing, it would sound like Barry White.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Ransomed

Just reinforces my (lack of) regard for the practices of this church.


16 posted on 07/15/2014 7:22:52 AM PDT by Shimmer1 (If chocolate fudge cake could sing, it would sound like Barry White.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: DManA

“It is crystal clear what happened in that confessional. A twelve year old girl asked for help from an adult she trusted and she got nothing.”

Do you mean ‘allegedly a twelve year old girl asked for help from an adult she trusted and got nothing?’

Freegards


17 posted on 07/15/2014 7:23:11 AM PDT by Ransomed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: DManA

We don’t know what was said in the confessional by either party and the perp is now deceased. The reason this is coming to light is because the girl, now 18, and the parents want money from the Church. They know the priest cannot tell if he counseled her to tell authorities, she can, however, say anything she wants and he cannot defend himself.


18 posted on 07/15/2014 7:26:12 AM PDT by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Shimmer1

Well, they’ll be sued into oblivion if this stands because I don’t see anyway for them to defend themselves from those looking for damages for something that allegedly happened in a confession that allegedly led to something actionable against the diocese. So there’s that to look forward to, I suppose.

Freegards


19 posted on 07/15/2014 7:27:00 AM PDT by Ransomed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: DManA

The fact of the matter is, as discussed on a related thread, the alleged confession occurred six years ago. So if the parties involved are interested in justice, they should have the girl, now legally a woman, testify in a court of law. There’s no reason to be asking the priest what was said, the victim can testify herself as to what she told the priest.

Why isn’t that being done? I didn’t see any discussion about that question on the previous thread. I suppose one possibility is because she’s too traumatized by the whole affair but another is simply because, as has also been brought up as a possibility here, this is an attempt by secularists to gain control over the Confessional. I’m sure that’s at least some part of the motivation of some involved in this case. Not the young woman but others supposedly representing her “interests”.

Let’s also not forget that the perpetrator if this crime is dead. He died of a heart attack in the course of a criminal investigation. So there’s nothing to be done here but persecute a priest for keeping the seal of confession inviolate.

Let me ask you something directly DManA: do you think a priest should be required by law to report something he heard in the course of a confession to the police, if said confession contains an admission of a crime, either committed or ongoing?

If you answer that question it may save you some time because I’m going to tell you now: priests are not allowed to tell anyone anything about any confession, even if said confession took place. Period.

So if you answer “yes” to the above your issue is not with this priest in particular but with the Catholic Church.

I see no reason in beating around that bush.


20 posted on 07/15/2014 7:31:03 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: FourtySeven

Does anyone know for sure if this case is about civil damages against the diocese? I think she did testify in court, but how do you award damages or even charge the priest with something when his faith tells him he can’t even confirm he heard her confession? Like I said, if the law is indeed this way in LA and supposedly other states, why hasn’t this come up before?

FReegards


21 posted on 07/15/2014 7:36:25 AM PDT by Ransomed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: pbear8

I hope they get money from the church. A ton of it.


22 posted on 07/15/2014 7:37:25 AM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: DManA
"It seems that a girl told a priest in a confessional that a 64 year old man was raping her and the priest treated that as a confession?"

If she was in a confessional with the priest, then it was a confession.

But it does seem that there was an "easy out" for the priest at the time....simply tell the girl to come and talk to him outside the confessional.

23 posted on 07/15/2014 7:46:22 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (Newly fledged NRA Life Member (after many years as an "annual renewal" sort))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: kitkat; DManA; Shimmer1
She was either seeking advice because she had no way to stop the rapist, or she might have been guilty of allowing the rape to happen. You can’t possibly know which it was.

While I can't agree with the part about a twelve year old allowing a rape (no capacity to give consent), there is a more logical possibility.

Children this age are ego centric and will often take blame upon themselves for things that we, as adults, know are beyond their control. For instance, thinking that parents divorced because they were "bad" kids.

If the perp groomed the child as most perps do, he would have easily been able to reinforce that erroneous thought she might have about being at fault.

If that was the case, she may have come forward to confess her mistaken belief that she was at fault, in which case it would be the confessor's religious duty to help her understand the fallacy of her thinking while directing her to the resources to make the report.

If this was the scenario that unfolded, then I suppose the priest could have assisted her to make the report.

24 posted on 07/15/2014 7:57:04 AM PDT by johniegrad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Ransomed

It is a civil case yes. Not a criminal one. As far as I understand there is no criminal case being investigated.


25 posted on 07/15/2014 8:13:37 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Shimmer1

Whatever is said in the confessional is a confession. It does not have to be a personal confession of guilt in order to be confidential.


26 posted on 07/15/2014 8:45:36 AM PDT by Boogieman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: DManA

But after having heard the girl’s confession, the priest could have advised the girl to report the rape to the proper authorities without breaking his vow of silence.

After all, the priest is there to hear confessions but also to advice the penitent how to avoid a particular sin in the future.


27 posted on 07/15/2014 9:37:28 AM PDT by 353FMG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 353FMG

“But after having heard the girl’s confession, the priest could have advised the girl to report the rape to the proper authorities without breaking his vow of silence.”

Yeah, if there was some sort of conference outside confession or something then the mandatory reporting law would supposedly kick in. But then I don’t understand why the lawsuit, unless he only told her after the first few confessions and then had some sort of conference. But if everything did happen in confession, how do we know that the priest didn’t advise her to do exactly that? I’m not saying he did, but wouldn’t it look exactly the same whether he did or not to us, depending on what the girl then decided to do?

Truly a mess, and I don’t understand why something like this is only happening now if the law has been this way since 1991.

Freegards


28 posted on 07/15/2014 9:58:11 AM PDT by Ransomed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Ransomed

The authorities may have questioned the girl who it was who advised her to report the crime to them.

The priest’s name then came up.


29 posted on 07/15/2014 10:05:29 AM PDT by 353FMG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: 353FMG

Well, she is saying that the priest told her that she needed to keep the crime quiet, they are apparently suing the diocese over it. But the priest can’t even admit that he heard her confession at all much less what he told her, even if he wanted to (which I am not saying he does). The priest could be culpable as heck, he could be innocent. But either way it is all going to be the same, right? It’s not like he has the option of saying, ‘of course I will testify, I have nothing to hide,’ even if he really doesn’t have anything to hide he still can’t do anything different than if he is guilty.

Freegards


30 posted on 07/15/2014 11:28:52 AM PDT by Ransomed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

The first Amendment to the Federal Constitution says Congress shall make no law. As it is there is no congressional law in question here, so Technically and literally the 1st amendment to the Federal Constitution is ill-relevant on this issue.

What is relevant is the Louisiana Constitution which probably does have some rather point full things to say on the issue.


31 posted on 07/15/2014 4:43:32 PM PDT by Monorprise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson