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MAX HASTINGS: This lying brute who has to be shackled
dailymail.co.uk ^ | July 18, 2014 | MAX HASTINGS

Posted on 07/18/2014 6:41:23 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

News of the destruction of Flight MH17 and the appalling murder of 298 people gave Russia’s president Vladimir Putin a chance to step back from a precipice.

Yesterday, he could have stood up before the world and denounced the crime; endorsed a full investigation and punishment of the guilty.

Instead – yet almost inevitably, given the nature of the man – he presented his stone face. He asserted, against all logic and evidence, that Ukraine and its rulers were the guilty parties.

He lied, as he has lied all his life since he was first schooled in deceit and brutality by those masters of the art, his old employers at the KGB.

Putin probably felt that no path was open to him save denial, because the facts point blame for this huge tragedy squarely at the Kremlin.

In March, Putin annexed Crimea, then embarked on a strategy of covert military support for pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, designed to sustain civil war and ruin the country.

Month after month, Western intelligence has tracked Russian special forces – ‘little green men’, as they are nicknamed, because they wear no uniforms or badges – working with the pro-Kremlin separatists.

Satellite photographs show heavy weapons and tanks trundling into eastern Ukraine from Russia.

Whether the Malaysia Airways plane was hit by a missile supplied by Moscow or captured from the Ukrainian Army is neither here nor there. Putin is the sponsor and puppet-master of the rebels. Thus, he must bear responsibility for this appalling act.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 07/18/2014 6:41:23 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Let me guess, the feckless fool on the hill?


2 posted on 07/18/2014 6:44:15 PM PDT by Fungi
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To: Tailgunner Joe

From what I have been hearing it is most likely Russian personal that were involved in firing the rocket launcher. They say it takes quite a bit of training to be able to use one and the rebels are not yet up to the task.


3 posted on 07/18/2014 6:49:04 PM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: Tailgunner Joe
some_text
4 posted on 07/18/2014 6:49:49 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: Tailgunner Joe
This disaster illustrates why there will never be a civil war in this country to throw off the tyranny.

This airliner was accidentally shot down when the insurgents though they were targeting a military aircraft.

These kind of mistakes are inevitable in any war.

The first case of civilian casualties in some Civil War 2 at the hands of rebels will cause everyone to run for the hills and bow down in surrender to the federal leviathan.

5 posted on 07/18/2014 6:53:49 PM PDT by ClaytonP
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To: lodi90

Ouch, that ones gonna leave a mark!

LOL

CC


6 posted on 07/18/2014 6:59:52 PM PDT by Celtic Conservative (tease not the dragon for thou art crunchy when roasted and taste good with ketchup)
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To: Fungi

did it ever occur to you that ukraine permitted
civilian flights close to the russian border despite its own jets being shot down in same area...ukraine approves where and who flys over its soverign land...i dont see this point in one single report from anyone in Media...meaning ukraine knew, in time, a civilian plane would get hit no different than allowing planes to fly into dust from an active volcano....


7 posted on 07/18/2014 7:35:58 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: Understand the stimulus

Did it ever occur to you that was sarcasm? Of course Putin had his hand in this.


8 posted on 07/18/2014 7:40:37 PM PDT by Fungi
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Diversion alert. It’s 0bama and his ilk who are the real devils and threat to American liberty!


9 posted on 07/18/2014 7:54:05 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est. New US economy: Fascism on top, Socialism on the bottom.)
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To: Fungi

Ukraine did TOO...maybe Obama remember US advisors are there and allowing civilian planes in a war zone was 100% Intentional...BTW it wasn’t sarcastic it was 100% factual


10 posted on 07/18/2014 7:59:23 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: Understand the stimulus

Wow! Thank you! I rest my case—for now.


11 posted on 07/18/2014 8:01:15 PM PDT by Fungi
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To: Understand the stimulus; Fungi; McGruff; WhiskeyX; vladimir998; 1rudeboy

So we’re all agreed then -

Putin is a murderous monster, and needs to be held accountable for this massacre.


12 posted on 07/18/2014 8:07:27 PM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: canuck_conservative

putin is standing up to the American dictator Obama....stalin helped win world war two...there is no shortage of tyranny in the world ..Russia has changed...for the better America has become a gulag...like south Africa where the legal system is being corrupted as well...I have fought against the Russians when the US stood for something other than black power....


13 posted on 07/18/2014 8:17:25 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: Understand the stimulus

Blah blah blah ... still fresh blood on Putin’s hands


14 posted on 07/18/2014 8:21:08 PM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: canuck_conservative

with Obama’s policy heads are popping up on n y lawns by Mexican m-13....theres a lot of blood to go around


15 posted on 07/18/2014 8:34:27 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: Understand the stimulus

Did it ever occur to you that the rebels weren’t supposed to have access to advanced Russian weapons? That only the air space above 32,000 feet was cleared for travel? That MH17 only crossed into Ukraine airspace because apparently a Polish air traffic controller directed it to do so to avoid bad weather? That this mobile advanced antiaircraft battery may have only recently entered the country - from Russia.


16 posted on 07/18/2014 9:01:13 PM PDT by DB
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To: Understand the stimulus

The path the plane took was up to the airline and the pilot.

US airlines were ordered to avoid the airspace. Others as well but this one chose to fly it. It turned out to be a bad call. (but it was the shortest route)

So from that respect you can blame fuel prices..


17 posted on 07/18/2014 9:10:10 PM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Understand the stimulus

Idiot


18 posted on 07/18/2014 9:17:14 PM PDT by Dagnabitt (Amnesty is Treason. Its agents are Traitors.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Oh, come on! Old KGB Vlad, he’s as truthful as our American President, or maybe the one a couple of times ago, don’t you know?


19 posted on 07/18/2014 9:31:05 PM PDT by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them or they more like we used to be?)
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To: DB

You know there was a Singapore Airlines flight about twenty miles behind and northwest of MA17. If they had bad enough luck it could have been them targeted. I don’t understand why Ukraine didn’t put this route off limits after losing the Antonov and the Sukhoi 25. They had to have known that the murdering swine had at least one SAM 11 launcher— maybe more.

Also, I have seen a grand total of zero commenters anywhere—— except for me—— ask if it could be possible that the Russian separatists had guys who had been AAA troops during service time in the Ukraine or Russian armies. In other words maybe Putin did not even have to provide these operatives; they may have been in the region already.

.


20 posted on 07/18/2014 10:17:44 PM PDT by Rockpile
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Actually Putin stated that Ukraine was PARTLY responsible. Not entirely responsible. He stated they share some of the blame. What if the Ukraine has mistakenly shot down a plane due to the hair trigger civil war situation ? Would you not say that rebels shared some of the responsibility ?


21 posted on 07/18/2014 10:54:12 PM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: Rockpile

Fox News is saying the SA-11 launcher likely arrived in the Ukraine over the last couple of weeks and is now likely back in Russia.

Russia has some explaining to do.

In addition it was earlier reported that the “commander” that order the attack is likely a Russian operative that works for the Russian military. A person who would know how to operate this specialized equipment.


22 posted on 07/19/2014 1:20:20 AM PDT by DB
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To: Cold Heat

It has been reported that the plane’s planned route did not go over the Ukraine. That air traffic control in Poland directed the plane to go over the Ukraine to avoid bad weather.


23 posted on 07/19/2014 1:22:53 AM PDT by DB
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To: DB

Bet that this missile crew and their bosses are really sweating now. They made Putin look bad and I doubt he’s the forgiving type.


24 posted on 07/19/2014 7:04:37 AM PDT by Rockpile
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To: DB

I think there is a conflict of stories and reports.

Last I read, the pilot wanted 35K feet....and controllers put him at 33K.

It seems also that Putin would like to make it look like they were after his plane and blame it on Ukraine govt.

I would be pretty careful with the propaganda from both sides frankly speaking..The truth has never been a habit in Eastern Europe.


25 posted on 07/19/2014 7:59:15 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Cold Heat

It looks like the Polish air traffic control routing claim is false. But it is still not clear.

It sounds like it is known where the missile was launched from with a high degree of certainty. Reportedly two missiles were missing from the launcher so more than one missile may have been launched. It should also be known who was in control of the area at the time - and that very much looks like the “rebels”. You can’t fake that.

It doesn’t make any rational sense that the Ukrainians would want to shoot down Putin or any other Russian plane. It would only give Russia the excuse it is looking for for full scale invasion.

It also sounds like the US and others are about to bring forth evidence (we likely had satellites watching) of the missile launcher crossing the border from Russia and then making its way back to Russia after the shoot down. That puts the Russians in control of the weapon.


26 posted on 07/19/2014 11:49:25 AM PDT by DB
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To: Cold Heat

you don’t know what youre talking about In the US our FAA decides where planes can fly and likewise Ukraine...they set the parameters...I know it causes you anguish because you support Obama


27 posted on 07/19/2014 3:37:55 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: DB

who says so..you


28 posted on 07/19/2014 3:38:57 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: Understand the stimulus

“did it ever occur to you that ukraine permitted
civilian flights close to the russian border despite its own jets being shot down in same area”

1. The Russian mercenaries in the Ukraine did not possess surface-to-air-missile systems (SAM) with a range capable of shooting down a high altitude aircraft such as a civilian airliner transiting through an international airway above 30,000 foot altitude.

2. The Russian armed forces which had the SAM capable of shooting down MH17 had no lawful right to be in the Ukraine. Whether they were located in the Ukraine or inside the Russian border, the Russian SAMs and their Russian operators were obligated to recognize the MH17 transponder codes identifying the aircraft as a Malaysian civilian airliner on their fire control radars and refrain from firing any SAMs at such a civilian aircraft. The Russian soldiers fired the Russian SAM/s to target the MH17 despite their fire control radars identifying the aircraft as a civilian aircraft and despite the aircraft likely being identified on radar as a Malaysian aircraft.

3. The deliberate Russian targeting of a radar target located in a known international high altitude jet airway and identified by its transponder codes as a civilian aircraft or airliner is generally comparable to the crime of Germany’s U-boats deliberately sinking neutral passenger and merchant ship/s in the Second World War.


29 posted on 07/19/2014 9:47:31 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Understand the stimulus

If I were you, I would zip your pie hole before your mouth overloads you posterior..


30 posted on 07/19/2014 10:03:33 PM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: WhiskeyX

Totally agree...It could be considered a heinous act of war and not some sort of fog of war crappolla.

The obvious question is whether the limp wristed UN and it’s concubines in the West or the much feared NATO have the slightest bit of interest in taking on Putin or Russia, keeping in mind that this is not the first airliner they have shot down..(Korean airlines)

From what I am getting in the US press and other commentary is that Obama and co, have already made moves to hide in the closet until it blows over.


31 posted on 07/19/2014 10:10:12 PM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: WhiskeyX

the last 7 FLIGHTS were way to the south YET this flight hugged the border...happiness is how Obama stagers things....the bully is obama


32 posted on 07/20/2014 8:26:39 AM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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