Posted on 09/24/2014 7:34:04 PM PDT by george76
1—You, as many Americans do, ignore the very low rate of pre-1990 crime and violence in the UK that the rise comes from. Remember the ‘shock’ in the US that the UK rose in crime in that decade?. I remember Dan Rather and others even covering it.
Of course, Americans all thought the UK was still like something out of Victorian London and their ideas of UK crime were out of Holmes and Watson. And as I said, for all the much-hyped rise, the UK was and still is a much safer country than the US and a nation far from the crime ridden hellhole some people try to claim it is.
2—Again, the supposed difference in rating murders in the UK and US simply dosent exist. Again, I ask you to follow your own link to page 32 of the HO report, which shows the same classification. I again ask you to read the comments on Rick’s page, which are gold-dust in terms of clear facts on UK crime.
3—The kneejerk gun laws came in because of the Dunblane school massacre. Everyone knows this. Bad laws or not.
Guns are legal in the UK except assault rifles and handguns on the mainland (or most). Rifles and shotguns are legal, as many as you want as long as you have a permit. I am a UK gun owner. In NI, the laws are different and much looser, handguns and even a form of CC is allowed.
The refusal to allow guns on paper for self-defence is imo a grey area, it comes from a 1946 statement by the Home Secretary, but imo has never been challenged properly, as its vague. Guns in the UK are allowed on the basis of sport shooting, target practice rather than self-defence (perhaps because then, unlike the US even then, the British people didn’t need guns for self defence, given the very low level of crime, assault, housebreaking etc).
In short, you are allowed guns, its just the reason why isn’t given as self-defence.
4—The British have not been subjects since 1948 and the Nationality Act.
5-The old man (not elderly in fact, 50’s) was Tony Martin, who shot two burglars at 100 yrds in the back, killing one. For that the court decided he overstepped the limits of self-defence, and jailed him.
A decision btw which I opposed as did many British people. He was released after five years after a campaign to release him. Due to that case, btw, the UK since 2000 has twice in fact strengthened the rights of people to defend their home, including killing a burglar (Manchester 2012).
There’s a myth in your country, esp on the right ir talk radio etc, because of the Martin case and UK law, that the British don’t have the right to self-defence, which is a nonsense. I know its bunkum because I was a victim who fought back himself (2008).
6—The ASBO is not for normal people, its an order/restriction for multiple offenders, people with a long list of antisocial behaviour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-social_behaviour_order
Its not the freedom-restricting Orwell 1984 horror you seem to think it is. Its a control for frankly violent thugs who cannot behave. The biggest problem with the ASBO isn’t it, its the fact its actually not effective.
No offence, but your posts clearly show you have never heard of a lot of UK crime/laws until you’ve posted here. Or don’t understand a lot of the UK and its culture, be it 1984 or now.
Proud to be British and happy to be British.
Glad not to be an American.
Your assertion that the UK only classes ‘murder after conviction’ is not true.
http://rboatright.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/comparing-england-or-uk-murder-rates.html
In ‘Rick’s Notes’, as blogger John Kramer said in the comments section, read page 32 of the very report you linked!. In fact read the comments by John Kramer and other British readers who have posted the real facts and frankly made Rick’s article a nonsense.
The report on pg 32 and other facts show that UK and US rates are counted the same. I repeat that, counted the same. So the above assertion is as I said nonsense.
Read p32 of the Home Office report that Rick linked and you’ll see that amongst the 636 recorded homicides there were 316 where the court decision was pending, 54 concluded without a verdict (for example murder/suicides), and 95 cases with no identified suspect.
If the UK really reported only murder convictions, then they would ACTUALLY ONLY have reported only 102 homicides in that year, or 171 if they included manslaughter convictions. But in fact they reported 636 because they use the same method as the US.
I have read the article and its rubbish frankly. Even if we accepted the ‘Rick argument’, it would still be a little over 1000 murders and almost half the US rate!.
So I ask both of you to follow the links and also to read the comments at the bottom of ‘Rick’s page’, which are gold-dust in terms of clear facts on UK crime.
Thank you, Scotsman!
“Do you know what those cities all have in common?”
Decades on top of decades of RAT governance.
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