Posted on 12/20/2014 4:18:22 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson
I would like to thank the Japanese for offering up their war effort as a proving ground for untested hare-braned ideas, most of which were complete failures.
I've long wondered, and in fact have been counting on these threads to explain, why this mighty German invading force couldn't overcome lightly-defended Bastogne, and I think you've distilled the answer for me.
Bastogne was not only defended by the 101st Airborne, whose troops were trained to fight in isolated positions, there were a ton of troops and materiel from a large variety of units who had filtered in as they were driven back. It was a hodge-podge, but a potent hodge-podge, once it got organized for defense. They sustained a lot of casualties, but they gave the Germans one hell of a bloody nose.
They deserve all the glory they’ve gotten. But so do the men who fought hundreds of other crucial actions throughout the Battle.
Hitler’s intuition, meds notwithstanding, wasn’t too far off. He hoped this counter-offense would split the Allies’ already shaky loyalties. Bradley almost quits and Monty resumes command of the north with his scathing and apparently inaccurate description of the American situation.
I guess Ike had to use him, but Monty had to have been a real pain in the a##.
I guess Ike had to use Monty. Dang, that would have been difficult for Ike, I think. Monty and Patton were both a pain in the a##. The difference was, with the exception of Africa, Monty was all hot air - arrogance unjustified by action but rather often seemly more of a hindrance. And Monty’s loyalties seemed questionable to me.
You do what you gotta do, I guess, and Ike did.
Your sympathy for Gen. Model is touching.
Thanks—that’s very helpful. The Germans weren’t as fearsome, and the Americans were tougher, than I had understood.
Not much Kameradschaft for the Waffen SS in that particular post-mortem. After the news of the murders at Baugnetz gets transmitted through the soldiers' grapevine, Americans will have even less use for them than than before.
ETO vets who used to tell me about their experiences in detail would almost invariably mention their much more implacable attitude towards members of SS formations.
Mr. niteowl77
The Americans were greatly helped by the huge logistical failures on the Germans part.
If the traffic jams on the Americans side were bad the ones behind the Germans lines were epic!
The Germans had stockpiled some 4 million gallons of fuel for the offensive. That is a lot of gas but only about 20% of the fuel was at the front. The rest was stored east of the Rhine to keep it out of the Allied hands Did I mention the traffic jam problem?
By day 3 Allied airpower started hammering at the rail and road junctions between the Ardennes and the Rhine creating further delays in getting supplies to the front. When the weather broke on Dec 23rd Allied tactical air came into play in full force. From the Dec 23rd to Dec 27th for German forces to move in daylight meant almost certain death at the hands of the Allied Jabos.
It is always fun to play what if but a couple of things stand out:
1} What if the German traffic jams had not been as bad as they were? Fortunately for the Americans that was not the case. Many times the timely reinforcements for the Germans were held up in traffic jams in the rear. This gave the Americans crucial time and space to get ready for the next attack.
2} What if the Germans had brought up 50% 0f the available fuel instead of the 20%. Panzer units would not have been sitting idle waiting for fuel to move out on the attack. The lack of fuel played a part in the German failure to take St. Vith and Bastogne in a timely manner because units had to wait on fuel to keep moving.
Part of the German logistical issues were due in part top Hitler’s meddling but a fair part was due to poor staff work. Mistakes that were not made by the Geramsn staff in 1940.
Regards
alfa6 ;>}
Tanks that can’t move can’t do much.
I hope you saw what I did there.
I recall reading a comment somewhere that the fighting between American airborne and Waffen SS units was “especially bitter.” I’ve always assumed that meant “no prisoners.”
The Germans had traffic jams in 1940 too. The road net in the Ardennes just wasn’t sufficient to support a major offensive. I don’t think you can make the traffic go away in the Ardennes any more than you can in Chicago or LA.
Hammering the rail junctions from the air didn’t help either. This was a huge help for the allies. It’s also a sign of just how quickly the Americans, particularly Eisenhower, realized the significance of the German attack that the strategic air force was immediately committed to bombing the rail hubs.
Exactly right but what the Germans did not in 1940 have was a bunch of French poli shooting at them and French and British aircraft bombing the supply lines.
The Luftwaffe pretty much took care of the aircraft part and the abysmal French generalship took care of the rest.
Regards
alfa6 ;>}
I did: I’m sharp like that sometimes.
Der Prinz and I just watched the episode of “Band of Brothers” where the 101st moves into Bastogne at the very end. “I saw a werewolf on a truck on his way to a glorious last stand. His hair was PERFECT!”
Lol! I love it and somewhere Warren Zevon is smiling.
Those hairdos are labor-intensive. I know: I have a 20-year-old son with Perfect hair. A curler, a straightener, a leave-in conditioner, an intensive pomade, and Jamie-our-hairdresser on speed-dial ...
But that said, we enjoyed it, and we’ll watch the Bastogne episode in the next couple of days. Tom stomped off, griping that it didn’t make any sense to start watching at episode 5. “It’s World War II, Tom. You know the beginning, the middle, and the end!”
“I don’t care. Let me know when you have Episode 1.”
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