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Nuclear Power Turns To Salt
forbes.com ^ | 1/07/2015 @ 11:32AM | James Conca

Posted on 01/31/2015 1:05:27 AM PST by ckilmer

click here to read article


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To: jonno

Thanks for getting the reference


21 posted on 01/31/2015 8:16:05 AM PST by teeman8r (Armageddon won't be pretty, but it's not like it's the end of the world.)
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To: teeman8r; freeonefrom
"“what difference does it make” 233 or 235 it is only nuclear."

It makes a huge difference in how reactors for each must be designed, as the neutron economies (reaction cross-sections, number of neutrons generated per fission, and more) are significantly different for the two isotopes.

22 posted on 01/31/2015 11:21:41 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (Newly fledged NRA Life Member (after many years as an "annual renewal" sort))
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
"So the question becomes, why use a thorium molten salt reactor instead of a pebble bed reactor?"

Because the PBR's are not nearly as safe nor economical as their propagandists claim. Long-term research studies in prototype reactors shows that the fuel "pebbles" leak far more radioactivity than claimed, and wear out faster.

There was a long thread about this a couple of years ago.

23 posted on 01/31/2015 11:25:27 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (Newly fledged NRA Life Member (after many years as an "annual renewal" sort))
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To: frithguild
"U-233 is fissile and has been used for a bomb."

Yes, I'm well aware of that (minored in nuclear science while getting my PhD in chemistry). But the reaction characteristics of the two isotopes are different, and 233 is NOT the isotope used in U-Pu "burner" and/or "breeder" reactors reactors. That is 235. And for an article that claims to be authoritative, that mistake is NOT one that should have been made.

24 posted on 01/31/2015 11:26:09 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (Newly fledged NRA Life Member (after many years as an "annual renewal" sort))
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

the huge hope is that portable assembly line built thorium reactors will produce electricity for 1/2-1/4 the cost of the cheapest coal.


25 posted on 01/31/2015 2:00:13 PM PST by ckilmer (q)
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To: Afterguard

that would be the first time I heard that the russians successfully produced molten salt reactors. the way I heard it was that in the 60’s & 70’s the russians and indians both tried to do molten salt reactors but when the USA gave up both the russians and the indians gave up on molten salt reactors.


26 posted on 01/31/2015 2:03:27 PM PST by ckilmer (q)
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To: ckilmer
why did not the DOE choose an American thorium company

Hey! Canadians are Americans (so are Mexicans)

27 posted on 01/31/2015 2:06:52 PM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: frithguild
They will own all of the intellectual property needed to make it work commercially. Then, when it proves to be an inexpensive and safe source of heat and power, if we in the US want to use it, we will be paying the Chinese royalties.

Nah, we can just steal it and improve it. Then we can tell them we are now even for all the intellectual property they have stolen from us.

28 posted on 01/31/2015 2:12:39 PM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: Kennard

I think the ground under this will shift here in the next couple of years, because there’s too many players getting into the game. The most recent is martingale thorcon. This company has an impressive bunch of founders and may well wind up with google funding.
http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/01/low-cost-walk-away-safe-molten-salt.html

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NN-Martingale-reveals-its-ThorCon-liquid-fuel-reactor-design-07011501.html


29 posted on 01/31/2015 2:18:36 PM PST by ckilmer (q)
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To: Wonder Warthog

Yes, many mistakes in the article - some pretty funny.

A LFTR needs U-233 to start the reaction, as I understand it. Then Thorium decay cycle maintains the reaction with a minimum of resulting actinides. Not really a burner fast neutron reactor.

The TE IMSR looks like it will use Uranium decay cycle, so more actinides. Good for burning “spent” fuel is the thinking I suppose.


30 posted on 01/31/2015 2:21:12 PM PST by frithguild (The warmth and goodness of Gaia is a nuclear reactor in the Earth's core that burns Thorium)
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To: frithguild
"A LFTR needs U-233 to start the reaction, as I understand it."

Any thorium-cycle reactor can use any fissile material that is available for startup....U-235, U-233, or Pu-238. The excess neutrons from that "starter fuel" then "breed" Th-232 into U-233, which continues the cycle until all Th has been converted and "burned".

31 posted on 01/31/2015 3:27:34 PM PST by Wonder Warthog (Newly fledged NRA Life Member (after many years as an "annual renewal" sort))
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To: Wonder Warthog

I am isophobic


32 posted on 01/31/2015 5:24:30 PM PST by teeman8r (Armageddon won't be pretty, but it's not like it's the end of the world.)
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To: frithguild

Hahahaha, respect chinese intellectual property like they respect ours.
Bill gates will have iy reversed engineered i two weeks.

And patented.

And in every third world household.

As an add on to windows xp plus


33 posted on 01/31/2015 5:27:16 PM PST by teeman8r (Armageddon won't be pretty, but it's not like it's the end of the world.)
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To: Wonder Warthog

The TE IMSR is a single fluid burner that will need infusions of Uranium. Disposal of spent fuel I suppose is the selling point.


34 posted on 02/01/2015 4:46:59 AM PST by frithguild (The warmth and goodness of Gaia is a nuclear reactor in the Earth's core that burns Thorium)
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To: teeman8r

Look, any startup will have to factor in costs of royalties or the legal costs in fending off litigation from employment of reverse engineered ip. Our system, which holders of ip will use, plays by the rules. It is not a problem that can be laughed off.


35 posted on 02/01/2015 5:05:02 AM PST by frithguild (The warmth and goodness of Gaia is a nuclear reactor in the Earth's core that burns Thorium)
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To: frithguild

But a system that nationalizes industry to protect the proletariat, be upset overthe prolitariot using their system to further the cause... Ends justifying means


36 posted on 02/01/2015 5:16:10 AM PST by teeman8r (Armageddon won't be pretty, but it's not like it's the end of the world.)
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To: Afterguard

Sodium cooled-mix with water “Boom”! Lead/ Bismuth also used as coolant.


37 posted on 02/01/2015 9:09:33 AM PST by Ozark Tom
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To: frithguild

On average 96% of the initial fuel energy content remains in spent fuel assemblies, pulled due to accumulation of neutron absorbing contaminant reaction products. Decades worth of accumulated spent fuel once destined for “Yucca” can be re-purposed as a fuel source.

When Thorium breeding of fuel becomes necessary/ desired, the 3400# of pure U233 stockpiled will fulfill its most favored role.


38 posted on 02/01/2015 9:46:57 AM PST by Ozark Tom
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Throwing away the bulk of the fuel energy content remaining within the fuel kernel heart of the pebble.


39 posted on 02/01/2015 9:51:51 AM PST by Ozark Tom
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To: Wonder Warthog

U233- more neutrons available for fuel breeding.


40 posted on 02/01/2015 9:54:28 AM PST by Ozark Tom
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